FCC does it again, leaks new Archos generation

Posted by Charbax – July 29, 2012

Another year, another Generation of Archos tablets is leaked exclusively through blurry pictures on the FCC leaking machine. Same happened with G5 in 2007, G7 in 2009, Home Tablet in 2010, G8 in 2010 (2). Here's the Archos G10 XS (all FCC documents):

Rumored or confirmed:

TI OMAP4470 ARM Cortex-A9 processor
New Proprietary Dock for the included Keyboard Dock (maybe something else too)
Kick-stand (called Tablet Stand) is on the Keyboard Dock
Keyboard doubles as thin screen protector and seems to use a new twist function (with or without magnets) to attach and detach from the tablet.
Micro-SD, Mini-HDMI, Micro-USB (dunno if doubles as host)

Is there some kind of conspiracy? Why does the US FCC always leak Archos new devices before Archos decides to unveil those products to the press officially?

Consider some reasons why Archos Generation 10 can be very attractive to massive audiences:

- Price can start $299 for 10.1" with the included Keyboard Dock.
- That can be $200 to $300 cheaper than Microsoft Surface.
- No technical reason that Archos G10 can't also dual-boot into Chrome OS for ARM and even triple-boot into Windows 8 for ARM, Windows RT, if Microsoft simply allows Archos have a triple-boot on it (give the option to the consumer to pay for the Windows RT licence if they want to be able to triple-boot into it).
- This at $299 can be a very attractive ARM Powered Laptop/Tablet combo. Why not triple-boot Ubuntu, or Archos pick up the phone and talk with Canonical to ship it with the Ubuntu on Android app.
- This is the first TI OMAP4470 Tablet that I hear leaked and talked about. Texas Instruments dominated the market by the end of 2011, they can do it again and Archos has a long relationship with TI always shipping TI's latest most advanced processors early. Expect a wide range of smartphones and tablets other than Archos to also use OMAP4470 before the end of the year, that helps provide a foundation for good software support, such as Ice Cream Sandwich and Jelly Bean using the OMAP4460 Powered Samsung Galaxy Nexus as the reference design. That makes it easier for Archos to always stay up to date on the latest version of Android.
- OMAP4470 uses the SGX544 GPU, one of the most powerful GPUs on the market yet.
- OMAP4470 increases memory bandwidth further from OMAP4460, memory bandwidth is one of the most important functions of a powerful ARM Powered device, often more so than Ghz, number of cores and other.
- Consider this ARM Powered Laptop/Tablet combo can weight less than 500 grams. When productivity proves itself sublime on Android, Ubuntu on Android, Chrome OS dual-boot and an eventual Windows RT triple-boot, this form factor can prove itself to be one of the most demanded by consumers.

  • archosfanboy

    You are saying: “with TI always shipping TI’s latest most advanced processors early”

    IIRC this was not the case and lead to the horror story during the launch of the G9. Archos had announced 1,5Ghz for the launch in September and we had to wait october to see a G9 with a downgraded TI processor running at 1Ghz…

    also when you say “Texas Instruments dominated the market by the end of 2011” – what do you mean ? TI did not dominate anything in volume… do you mean performancewise ?

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    TI sold perhaps 10x more than Tegra3 since November 2011 and leading up to several months into 2012, probably still by that margin until today. TI OMAP4 is not just in Archos G9, it’s in Kindle Fire, Nook Tablet, Samsung Galaxy Nexus (the reference design for Ice Cream Sandwich and Jelly Bean), Motorola Atrix2/HD/Droid3/Bionic/Razzr/Xyboard, Blackberry Playbook, Fujitsu Arrows, Panasonic Lumix Phone, LG Prada 3/Optimus 3D, Pandaboard, some versions of Samsung Galaxy S2, Sharp Aquos Phone, Toshiba AT200, some versions of Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 (7″ and 10″).

    TI OMAP4 absolutely dominates the market in volume, performance and value for money. TI OMAP4 positionned itself as the reference for the latest two most advanced versions of Android, Ice Cream Sandwich and Jelly Bean.

    As for Archos being first with OMAP4, that has absolutely also been the case. While the Galaxy Nexus was barely being released, Archos was ready with OMAP4430 and just within 2-3 months after OMAP4460, and Archos had it in tablets far cheaper than a Galaxy Nexus. Still today, Archos is still one of the very only on the market to have released the OMAP4460 at 1.5Ghz. There just hasn’t been enough yield for other major brands to even be able to get access to it, while Archos has been shipping it exclusively in Gen9 for over 6 months now, and the prices from Archos are amazing, for example $219 for Archos G9 101 Turbo ICS with 1GB RAM..

  • archosfanboy

    sure Tegra 3 is the new kid around the block. Tegra 2 was the contender back then but indeed TI OMAP4 gained traction recently.

    Archos indeed has a great price but is struggling financially (two profit warning in Q1 and Q2) and their revenue was only up 8% in Q1 (in a market growing x2) and negative growth in Q2… so great price but a product that clearly does not sell (design/specs is almost 1 year old). can’t wait to see what G10 has to offer (I’ve read your post on your expectations) because if Archos does not move fast this will be a really bad year for them and their shareholder- the stock price has really been hammered, loosing 60% in the last 6 months)

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos isn’t struggling financially, they just around don’t quite double their revenue and profits each quarter year over year. Archos has perfectly fine financials for a 150-employee company out of France, they didn’t hire 2x more employees compared to last year, they didn’t need to spend 2x more on R&D compared to last year, component prices have actually significantly gone down since last year, Archos has absolutely no problem. Archos does not have negative growth in Q2 worldwide, only limiting to the USA, but the USA is less than 30% of Archos global revenue and profits, they sell mostly in Europe, and Archos still remains in top-4 tablet providers in Europe, they have absolutely no problem. The Archos stock price has gone up and down all the time, it’s a small cap, you can’t take that as any indication, investors are nervous about the EU not about Archos, Archos stock does +20% one week and maybe the next they do -30% in the week and the next week +10%, the stock is about at the same place it was before +/- about $10 Million or $30 Million in total stock valuation, which is absolutely nothing. Apple talks about $8 Billion profit per quarter and Apple is in the same business category as Archos so there is no reason Archos can’t significantly increase revenue and profits simply by getting more investments, which does not have to come from the stock market, it can come from the French Government, it can even come from the EU, Archos after-all is the only consumer electronics company left in Europe.

  • archosfanboy

    so Archos had enough money in the bank, had all the stock of their products they needed and.. they failed to sell…
    are you willing to revisit your statement that “Archos isn’t struggling financially” now that they posted their S1 results ? see http://www.archos.com/corporate/investors/financial_doc/Archos_-_Communique_r_sultats_S1_2012.pdf$27 million loss.. and they are taking provisions because they can’t sell their huge stock of legacy crapy tablets and will need to subsidize the sales to try to get rid of their supply before the new generation arrives… I know you are a fan of this company, but sometimes you owe it to your readers to be realistic and “stop the crap”…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Stop calling yourself ArchosFansboy, you’re obviously working for a competitor as an anti-Archos FUD spreader.

    Archos did not have a $27 million loss during the quarter. they just decided to use their available cash to down-pay a long term debt that they had been carrying for years. Archos had enough cash to pay it off ergo they are not in debt anymore today.

    Archos has no problem selling previous stocks nor new stocks, Archos remains the 3rd biggest Tablet brand in Europe IN FRONT of Asus, Acer, Motorola, Dell, Sony and many other. Now, you should just go get another job, go spend your time talking about something else untrue on some other website, cause Archos can’t be failing by being BIGGER on the tablet makert than companies than have 1000x more cash, 1000x more employees, supposedly 1000x more production capacity, Archos sells more than Asus, Acer, Motorola (Google), Dell, Sony, Huawei, ZTE, I can go on. Do you want me to mention it again? Archos sells huge amounts, more than each big brand.

    Now sure enough Archos’s financials could use some more significant investments thus to also try to see if they can actually overtake Apple and Samsung too and not only on the European tablet market, but why not also be number 1 in the USA and Asia. Archos can easily do it with the proper amount of investment. Archos doesn’t need to, Archos doesn’t have to, but Europe needs and wants Archos to do it thus the EU, France should be the ones to make sure that Archos has all the free interest credit loans for building strategic growth in the EU in France as they can reach, there is no other European consumer electronics company in the tablet space.

  • Let’s be factual…

    I would suggest any reader here to go and use google translate to read the company financials for S1

    Charbax is blatantly LYING, the company did not use cash to pay a huge debt generating the massive loss they posted – they actually had to take a loss on a tax credit they used to carry. There is n financial impact as this is just an accounting write off but the CFO clearly state that they need to do this because they have no visibility on the next five years and don’t know anymore if the company can make a profit.

    That’s the reality, these are the facts. Charbax BE HONEST HERE. Some people can actually read French…

    (and the rest of the doc they posted is terrible, too much stock (had to take a $7 million hit on

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    The fact is you are a sore jealous competitor who feels the urge to post anonymous comments on Archos related topics on which you have absolutely no understanding. Of course the CFO can’t predict 5 years in advance. Archos can sell more than Samsung, Apple and Microsoft combined by then, but you never know, maybe Archos is also bigger than Acer and Asus combined.

    Archos financials are perfectly fine. They are still selling tablets at a rate of upwards 2 million per year, they can sell many more with more cash, but it’s not required for Archos to generate that cash internally. A small company doesn’t need huge amounts of profits to be healthy. Shareholders can’t expect to be paid dividends anytime sooner than when Archos is the biggest tech company in the world.

  • Let’s be factual…

    Just read this.


    No need to work for a competitor or any other agressive excuse – I am stating the facts that are published by the company.

    When it comes to the tax impact – archos had to present a 5 year plan to their auditors (PWC) to recoup some tax credit. The plan was showing future revenue growth and profit and thus the tax break they had could be considered an asset. What the CFO is saying now is that their 5 year plan is not to be trusted anymore and thus they need to take a loss on those assets as future profits cannot be trusted anymore. This is part of the legal obligation of the CFO.

    You can accuse me of whatever you want – I am just stating the truth and you are trying to hide it because you are an archos fan boy… Just don’t get everyone

  • Let’s be factual…

    The CFO wrote (translation curtesy of google translate)

    Under the rules of accounting standard IAS 12, and given the profound changes on the environment observed in the second quarter to 30 June 2012, it was considered appropriate not to retain the assumptions of the business plan that existed in the financial statements at December 31, 2011, the Company is unable to produce a business plan for five years that will ensure the absorption of tax losses on the asset at December 31, 2011. Deferred taxes previously activated and being a portion of the carried forward indefinitely to Archos SA were fully incorporated. This results in a tax charge of € 14.1 million with no cash impact.

  • Let’s be factual…

    And regarding sales slowing down and product in stock accumulating the CFO wrote:
    The net stock at June 30, 2012 rose by € 13.2 million, including € 19 million increase in gross value of € 6 million and net charge, this significant result of the slowdown in sales growth from the end of Q1 2012.
    I don’t know how you can misrepresent this fact either…. Sorry.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos grows year/year, not as fast as they could have, just as Apple who has been seeing sharp decline in iphone sales this quarter. Archos doesn’t have any problems selling the stocks, they just ramp up for G10 at $200-300 cheaper/better than Surface/Transformer/iPad3, new Arnovas as cheap as $49-$99 for Jelly Bean (2-4x cheaper than Nexus7) and new Elements $199 ready to destroy iPad2 at half price. It’s only normal for Archos to stock up for that.

  • Let’s be factual…

    Apple saw 140%+ growth in calendar Q1 for iPad whereas archos grew 8%
    Apple saw 80%+ growth on iPad sales in Q2 calendar.. Archos growth was negative

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Apple cheats with quarterly numbers,they have always done that. Apple times product releases to include them within quarterly numbers.

  • Dupont88

    I have been looking at the documents. If They don’t have pb selling their stock why are they taking a one off charge of $13 million to help sell out $50m worth of stock? (looking at 26% discount to help sell out)

    They are facing some tough time undoubtedly but nothing they can’t fix if if they act fast. The new products are coming indeed

    Anyway – Time will tell.

  • Fred_pavil

    The stock price plummeted again on Monday and is still down today. The CEO did not even care to talk to the press about the results and what will change to save the company… They are bleeding cash at an alarming rate, archos is dying and whatever charbax is saying is just pure fanatics talk…

    You can read his blogs for some technical news but when it comes to business, strategy, finance and especially archos, then forget it. He has no clue whatsoever.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos financials are perfectly fine, they didn’t loose money this quarter, they spent some of their cash paying back the tax credit. Archos CEO doesn’t have to explain the plan of the revolutionary G10, Archos Elements (Rockchip RK3066 CTS super cheap) and new Arnova G3/G4 all the way down to $49 on 7″ capacitive Jelly Bean to beat Nexus7 on price. If you can’t figure out the value of those things it’s your problem. Archos stock price going down 15% one day is normal, it was up 20% in one day last week and no reason it won’t go up 20% per day next week again, it’s a small cap, the Archos stock price doesn’t mean much.

  • Fred_pavil

    Charbax, why do you lie on things so easy to verify?

    They lost money in S1 (1,9m euros) just on operations then add to that a 6m euro charge they are taking – this is money they will spend in S2 to help get rid of the huge stock of legacy products piling up at the end of S1 and collecting dust as they can’t sell them as fast as they thought (and then you can even add to that the tax credit impact of 14m euros)

    Their remaining cash in the bank is also running low at 11,6m (As they added more than 16m euros of expenses for stock they can’t sell and other expenses)

    All this is clearly documented on the company web site and that’s why the stick is being hammered and has lost 60% over the past 6 months. (which is a pb for them as they have a capital increase pending which is directly connected to their stock price so that will bring them way less money they had hoped for).

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Absolutely not true. Most of the 16 Million Euros expenses in S1 was to pay back the tax credit. Not some bogus losses you can make up. It’s nearly all about paying back the tax credit. Archos had the cash to pay it back and they never planned to use that cash for anything else. It’s not a loss of money, it’s money they could have paid in taxes earlier but tax credit laws let them keep the cash until later. It’s called credit impot recherche, it’s French and has nothing to do with Archos not selling out stocks or anything like that. The Archos stock is fine, it did +20% last week, it does -20% this week and probably does +20% next week, it’s a small cap and most investors in Archos have absolutely no idea what they are investing in, they just see an opportunity to ride on a small cap with high levels of volatity, you can’t potentially do +20% stock profit in one day on any other stock value.

  • Dupont88

    Charbax – you are French and I read French fluently. Take a deep breath and read carefully http://www.daily-bourse.fr/ARCHOS-Resultats-premier-semestre-2012-Feed-AN28947.php (or the one posted in PDF on their web site).

    You will see the operational loss (subtract income from expenses)
    You will see the 6 millions charge they are taking for helping selling out the stock they say has grown
    You will also see that expenses in S1 grew, that stock is 19 millions higher at the end of June which is their worry and that they are clealy saying they need some restructuring measure because THEY HAVE BEEN LOOSING MONEY. They also clearly show available cash being way low due to the stock that has been piling up and not moving out fast enough and the operational loss. Hopefully the 11,5m euros they are allocating to get rid of the stock will be enough and they get to sell it quick and then introduce the G10 and all the new goodies and they will do fine. But it’s a tough critical point for them now, they need to act and this is what they are doing. But please stop distorting the truth…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos has always been low on cash, this is no different than at any other point in Archos 10 Generations since 2001. It’s not like Archos has any huge debt or anything, if they take a slight loss on selling out old stocks before the imminent release of Gen10, that is perfectly normal, the release of new Gen allows for better margins and profits than the sellout out of the remaining stocks of the 1-year old Generation of products, that is only common sense and that has always been the same. Archos will get the remaining G9 sold out at prices like $199 or whatever, and considering the reseller takes 25% cut of that no matter what, and other expenses, it’s normal that Archos can’t possibly have much if any profits on those sales of old stock. And if they do have small loss on having to do that, they make it up easily by increased easy profit margin on selling the new higher priced generations, introducing new cheaper to manufacture Archos Elements and the worlds cheapest to manufacture Arnova yet, and on those, regardless of pricing, Archos can make a reasonable profit margin, and that is not in any way different now than at any point in the past for Archos, regardless of the increased market size and rapidly increasing tablet interest for the tablet form factor.

  • Dupont88

    ok we will see with Q3 numbers

  • Dupont88

    charbax – I think it would be very fair from you if you were to acknowledge that Fred_pavil and let_be_factual have indeed reported true statements from Archos financials. You probably read too fast the tax loss they took and did not dive into the details. that’s OK – would be fair play to recognize when someone else has been right.

    Then indeed you can make a point that it’s not such a big deal if they take a loss to get rid of the remaining stock as they might be able to catchup with gen 10 – that’s fine, that’s a fair opinion to have. They might disagree but your opinion is a good as theirs for this and the future will tell if Archos did make money or not in 2012 and maintained market share.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    You have no understanding of French tax credits for research small/medium companies, there is absolutely no way to credit tech companies performance over 5 years no matter what company. This is about paying back a long term low interest loam from the government. They could have kept it going but for no purpose. This isn’t money Archos looses, they always factored in paying back that loan on the cash that they have. This is a tiny amount, if the Government comes tomorrow with a 100x larger offer with excellent conditions, just with conditions like expansion in France, R&D in strategic areas such as robotics, Archos can say yes and next time have €1.5 Billion instead of €15 Million on the loan.

  • Frank Dubois

    Charbax – moi je comprends très bien le droit fiscal français et Mr “Lets be factual” a tout à fait raison et vous avez tout à fait tort. Il ne s’agit en aucun cas du remboursement d’une dette quelconque mais simplement de sortir de leurs actifs (donc en imputant une perte comptable) le crédit d’impôt qu’ils valorisaient. Ce crédit résultait des pertes des dernières années et donc en droit français ils pouvaient le mettre à l’actif de la société si la société était à même de présenter un plan crédible sur 5 ans de gain d’argent (profits) sur lesquels archos devrait payer de l’impôt mais ne le ferait pas puisqu’ils ont ce crédit. Ce que dit Mr Poirier c’est que à ce stade ils n’ont plus de visibilité, le plan à 5 ans sur lequel ils tablaient n’est plus crédible, Mr poirier dit qu’ils n’ont plus de visibilité sur la croissance et la profitabilité d’archos pour le futur et donc ils sont obligés de sortir le crédit d’impôts de leurs actifs – cela se fait sans sortie d’argent, c’est une écriture comptable sur les actifs de la société. C’est cependant très grave d’en arriver là – le management avouant ne pas savoir s’ils vont être profitables et s’ils ont un futur…

    Voilà je mets cela en français – ça reste entre nous – mais vous êtes plus crédible quand vous parlez techno que d’argent et de gestion de société… Désolé.. Je continue à vous lire pour le reste mais votre biais archos va finir par vous desservir – on va mettre en doute votre intégrité….


  • Frank Dubois

    Pour votre gouverne – lisez le rapport de 2011 de archos

    mais il y va de la responsabilité de gestion des dirigeants et de la signature de l’audit (PWC) qui pourraient être recherchés si ça tourne mal.

    si le management a tous les éléments en main aujourd’hui pour dire que le plan est caduque alors ils doivent le dire au marché et en tirer les conséquences.

    Pour comprendre la charge sur

    http://www.archos.com/corporate/investors/financial_doc/Rapport_financ ie r_2011.pdf

    Tout est détaillé (enfin pas le modèle sur 5 ans).

    Tout ce que l’on, peut en déduire c’est qu’ils ne sont plus confiants du tout sur la croissance et profitabilite escomptée et que leur plan à 5 ans est donc caduque.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Aucune compagnie dans le secteur electronique ne peut garantir a 5 ans ce qu’il va se passer. Archos a toujours su que ce credit impot/recherche PME alait expirer a ce communique. Ca ne change en rien les perspectives et spossibilite pour Archos de totallement dominer dans le monde de la tablette mondialement. Archos peut facilement vendre plus de tablettes que Samsung et Apple, c’est d’une facilite pour Archos qui est incroyable. Aucune compagnie sur la bourse Francaise, Europeenne ou mondial n’a autant de potentiel qu’Archos pour dominer dans le marche de la tablette, le marche le plus populairement decrit comment etant “en croissance”.

    Il faut absolument rien comprendre a la technologie ni au marche pour ne pas comprendre qu’Archos ne pouvant pas garantir la croissance a 5 ans n’a rien a voir avec le potentiel enorme de croissance pour Archos, meme sans croissance financielle, Archos peut accroitre son nombre de tablette vendue par annee.

  • Franck Dubois

    “Archos a toujours su que ce credit impot/recherche PME alait expirer”

    vous savez que c’est un gros mensonge n’est-ce pas… ça n’a rien à voir avec un crédit impôt recherche…

  • Dupont88

    So we have now Q3 numbers and its a 10% collapse against last year after the 2% collapse in Q2…
    Archos is in trouble again, they are stuck with a huge inventory that is not selling. Company’s future does not look good as they were not able to build up cash to order a nice stock of gen10 products for Christmas season..

    More bad news to come…

    Charbax it’s time to post something like only you know – twist and deny reality once again ?

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    What do you know except nothing? Archos has no problems selling. If someone invests, for example retailers, Archos Q4 is going to sell more than several multibillion dollar companies put together.

  • dupont88

    hum – they had 47m euros worth of stock at the end of the June and set aside 11 millions euros to help sell this out in major bargains… looks like they managed to only get rid of 30 millions worth of it…. so not sure they can sell as much as what they want… someone still needs to be interested in buying.. it’s not just a production challenge they face…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Absolutely not. Archos has zero problems selling their tablets, they’ve had zero problems since 2001. Archos scale is a 100-employee company, they can’t manipulate volumes per quarter as some giant corporations can by having huge cash reserves and moving products around. Archos does not care about Q3, they have too many new devices to launch now in Q4, including the Gamepad which Archos easily can sell 1 million of during just this quarter, if only they get investments necessary to crank up manufacturing capacity significantly, if a bet buy or fnac or media markt, or all of these, make such big orders with cash upfront signed document, Archos can easily sell more in Q4 than the whole previous 7 months combined.

  • Jean Jacques

    Why do you think none of the big retailers you listed place such an order…? because they think it won’t sell probably or it does not carry enough margin… So archios does have a selling problem…

    Also if you read their Q3 report they are saying remaining stock is a worry.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    All the retailers are queuing up to make big orders from Archos, I saw them all pushing and waiting at the Archos booth at the hong kong fair. Possibly never have I seen so many people at an Archos booth. The question only is if Archos finds a way to have someone else invest in expanding manufacturing capacity. Archos probably doesn’t want to borrow the money, it has to be investments by others in their manufacturing. Margins for resellers on sellong Archos devices are always excellent. Resellera make up to 30% margin selling Archos, which is better for them than selling Nexus7, Windows surface or apple.

  • Jean-Jacques

    Well either archos sales rep are not good or Q4 will be huge then…

    Because if big retailers are queuing up as you say for a product that will sell millions with a 30% margin then it should be no pb for the retailers to fork up the cash to fund production… or with a firm order from best buy, fnac or best buy archos can go see any bank and get the money (afacturage) for a small fee..

    So will see at the end of the last quarter what will have been the reality.. Rendezvous en février…

  • Jean-Jacques

    here we go… we have now the results of “All the retailers are queuing up to make big orders from Archos”… the company is being trashed by the competition – from their own words they admit that iPad and other competitors ate their lunch… challenging time for Archos

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos has plenty of growth potential, Archos Gamepad, Titanium, Platinum, G10 series, Archos Phones, all points to growth. They just didn’t convince a few retailers with last gen, especially in the USA, means nothing in terms of Archos potential for growth. Archos can easily become the biggest of this types of CE making companies in Europe.

  • DoomAngel

    The nice thing about fans is that they can’t think straight. -16% on th estock market today for archos. Cash is running low. Their G9 and G10 failed to attract customers and now they can’t even engineer their own products anymore and are slapping their brand onto Onda’s tablets (as FCC revealed). Sorry for you dude – you know the journey is the reward and you will be able to find another gat company to be enthusiastic about. It’s just a matter of time now…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos has always sourced Chinese technology, that is how Archos has been working for 10 years. Archos is the best at it. Onda is just another brand, Onda is not the manufacturer. The FCC reveals nothing. Archos is the only innovative company of this type left in Europe. Nokia is the one that is going in the total wrong direction, Nokia shareholders are loosing as much money every 6 hours as Archos may have lost in a year. Apple shareholders are loosing as much money every half hour as Archos have lost in a year. You people have zero understand of this market. Just go ahead and judge based on what some short term ignorant shareholders think one day or the next. Next week Archos stock goes up as much as it may have gone down this week, it’s a small cap and it’s stock value has no meaning for neither the health or the growth potential of the company.

  • Jean-Jacques

    well… let’s look at facts… once again they prove you wrong…

    Nokia has lost 8% since January 1st
    Apple has lost 17% since January 1st
    Archos has lost 20% since January 1st

    if Archos is sourcing Chinese technology, why do you think they are innovative? what you say is that they are actually just marketing the work from other?

    Regarding Onda, look at this as you speak french


    image from FCC, shows that the tablet Archos is getting through approval under its brand has the Onda logo and you can see all you want to know about them on their web site http://www.onda-tablet.com for the marketing arm and http://onda.cn for the real origin (if you speak chinese)

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    You suck at math. Nokia shareholders lost $1 Billion since January 1st. Apple shareholders lost $150 Billion since January 1st. Archos shareholders lost peanuts since January 1st. You have zero understanding of the market. Sourcing Chinese technology is what everyone in this market does, Archos is the best at it in Europe, probably also one of the best in the world. Go play with something else. Stop wasting my time.

  • Jean-Jacques

    If you had invested $10,000 in Nokia, Apple or Archos – how much would you have now in your pocket?

    That is the way every shareholder is looking at it… YOU suck at finance,,,

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    You suck at understanding the world. $10’000 invested in Archos buys you as many shares as $50 Million invested in Apple. Had you invested $10K in Archos you’d have invested $50 Million in Apple for the same % share in the company. Since January 1st you’d have lost over $10 Million in your Apple shares while you’ve barely lost $2K in Archos shares, again, for owning the same % of each company.

    You people are just sad and ridiculous, you have zero understanding of the value of money. You walk around not caring and not noticing how Billions of dollars are being lost by investors in Apple and how that is insane, for a company with a semi-fruit as logo and all they do is a little piece of electronic. You people have zero understanding of the value of consumer electronics companies. Just go away, go waste other people’s time. I don’t have time for you pathetic small minds.

  • dupont

    l’insulte est l’ultime argument des faibles. vous avez perdu Charbax. 100% raison à JJ ou Franck.

    Insult is the last argument of weak minds. You lost Charbax. JJ and Franck are totally right.

  • dupont

    Chabax – you invest what you can invest. if you have $10k to invest, this is what you invest… if you have 50 millions this is what you invest… but if you had put 50 millions into Archos, you would still have lost more in $$ than if you had invested that into Apple.. Yes you would have had more shares and more %age of the company… (and you pay your bills in $/€/£, not with %age of ownership of a company..

    it’s not about how much of the company you won (which is linked to valuation and valuation is connected to profitability, assets, revenue and growth prospects). I suggest you investigate the PER concept (Price Earning Ratio) that is (simply put) how many years of profit of a company you would need to get your money back if you had bought the full company. Apple PER (not counting cash which would make it even more attractive) is 10. You would need 10 year of operation to reimburse the full purchase of the company. Microsoft is 15. Google is 32 and Amazon is like 3000… it is not possible to calculate Archos PER as they are not profitable. even looking at last year when they had 5m euro profit, for a valuation of 80m as they have today that would mean 16 year of profits to pay back… (of course not relevant, over the past 10 year Archos has been barely profitable twice and the cumulated loss are roughly 80 to 90 millions eurors)

    by all metric Apple is actually very cheap at the moment in the market and this is because Wall Street wants to influence what they do with their massive war chest (130 billions in cash) and also because there have been some pressure on the margins of the company and thus a question mark on whether they will be able to continue to deliver reasonable margins in the future. That the future will tell…

    long story short. Archos is in trouble, their cash flow has been tremendously negative in 2012, they have barely 6 months worth of cash in front of them, had to raise 4 millions euros on the stock market again in January to not go under… Archos is transitioning business model from a engineering company to a commercial company. those are facts… and you can argue as much as you want about it… the financial results are coming in in March and all will be written in there…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    I’m not going to read your crap. Just go away, fake dupont. Apple is the one in trouble. Apple shareholders are loosing HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of DOLLARS. Archos is just spending a bit to invest into new areas such as portable gaming, robots, affordable smartphones, probably also wearable computing, home automation, larger tablets, ARM Powered laptops and many other new categories. Apple has nothing in any of those, all Apple has is the potential to loose hundreds of billions of dollars in valuation and in profits, as the iphone scam is nearly over. Archos is just starting. Apple is crashing down, and you’re a complete ignorant of the world.

  • Franck

    Sure they do… With 3,5 millions euro of R&D… You are a joke. You have no understanding for finance – stick to technology.

    We’ll wait mid march for the results of 2012 which will show massive loss, cash super low and then in April their Q1 which will be poor because they have no cash for production and Q2 will be terrible… And we will see that in July.

    Let’s keep track if what is happening…and we can compare your statements and reality..

    (BTW apple has patents in home automation, just released a patent for a wearable device , heard about iWatch rumors?)

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Apple has 0 valid patents, Apple is a joke of a company. You just go ahead about invest all your money in Apple stock and loose it all, have fun with that.

  • Franck

    Sure… The jury in the US which awarded them 1 billion dollar against samsung agrees with you…

    Even if you think they don’t innovate – They spent billions of dollars in recent years buying patents… So they have tons of valid patents…

    But I don’t care about apple,,, I’m more a google guy… And I play the stock market and apple made me wealthy and google richer… I own both stocks, and I had some Samsung too for a while..

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    The court of Cupertino said one thing, but that has no value in neither real US law nor international law. Samsung has not paid Apple $1. All the other courts all over the world invalidate all of Apple’s completely bogus patents. What is funny is that Samsung and LG are soon blocking all component sales to Apple and Apple will be completely dead, the Apple stock is going to crash much faster much further.

  • Anjali

    sure charbax.. it is true Samsung did not pay a dime yet to Apple. so far…

    the judge said that Samsung did not willfully infringe Apple IP but The court also disagreed with Samsung’s assertion that the trial was manifestly unfair…

    you can read on this here: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/01/judge-overrules-jury-finds-samsungs.html

    regarding news from the legal side, read this, this is pretty fresh:

    German court stays Samsung’s voiceover patent lawsuit against Apple: patent likely invalid

    Japan court rejects Samsung claim against Apple

    regarding Samsung supply to Apple… they just can’t withdraw… they need the money for their factories and have long term contracts.. and Apple is building capacity for when the contract expires with other suppliers and Samsung has to find ways to replace Apple as a customer… Billions of dollars of orders that Samsung will loose..

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    fosspatents is a fake site setup by a paid anti-Google blogger, stop linking to that BS site on here, fosspatents articles are all 100% false, made up BS that needs no promotion on the web.

    Samsung does not need Apple’s money, in fact Apple does not pay much more than cost price for Samsung’s components, thus Samsung can easily stop supplying to Apple and use all that capacity for their own brand or to any other Android brand. Contracts are easily invalidated by Samsung through South Korean law. Apple is the totally desperate one. Without Samsung, Apple has nothing and is bankrupt nearly overnight. Without Samsung, LG, without Asian suppliers and assembly, Apple is completely dead.

  • Anjali

    Fosspatent is well informed and its author sits in courts and tracks what happens as much as you track what happens in the ARM space or Archos space. It’s a trusted and robust source of information and market analysis,

    Regarding Samsung, why do you think they have published this in last May?


    They are scared to death loosing apple as a customer. Their stock price tanked $10 billion when a rumor apple was shifting a tiny bit of production elsewhere and Samsung management had to issue a press release.. You have no clue whatsoever on financial nor legal matters Charbax. Why don’t you stay focused on technology ?

    And on archos – think twice before you make claims… Reading through that blog discussion shows how wrong you have been so far on archos fate over the past few months. Don’t you think you owe some truth to your readership rather that blatantly distorting reality and facts in a way everyone can see?

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    You are completely useless. Go someplace else, and stop wasting my time.
    fosspatents is specifically and proven to be paid by MICROSOFT and ORACLE, and probably also by APPLE to constantly “blog” against Google in every single possible aspect. fosspatents has ZERO integrity and is worth ZERO trust by anyone with just a little knowledge of journalism in this market.
    Samsung can care less about supplying any more components to Apple. Samsung’s the one telling Apple to get lost, and go find some foundry and component supplier someplace else. Samsung’s stock means pretty much nothing, most of Samsung is held privately within South Korea, they have no obligations towards any public shareholder anywhere in the world. Apple is the desperate one. Samsung can easily use their own supply under their own brand and make 10x more profit per component than to have to supply Apple. Samsung is happy to make Apple die. In fact not just Samsung, everyone in Asia is only happy to see Apple be destroyed, which is what is happening. Within months or years if Apple continues their pathetic attack against free open source Android, Apple will be cut off from all consumer electronics supply from Asia, basically Apple will be dead, Apple stores will have zero products to sell and Apple shareholders will all go bankrupt.

  • Hmmm

    Are these fantasies erotic for you or have you transcended the needs of the flesh and become pure energy?

  • Anjali

    Charbax – you are so naive in your financial or geopolitical analysis…

    Let’s assume you are right. Why on earth Samsung did not kill apple yet then ? why do they keep building factories (including a massive investment for the A6 factory in Texas) just for Apple ? Don’t you see a conflict between your statement and the world as it is and works ?

    Samsung cannot rely on its inner market to strive. South Korea needs US support. Samsung needs to be a global company. If they don’t play by US market and ITC rules they will be trashed. The risk is pretty high actually, Tim cook is close to Obama,,,

    It’s a power game.

    And if you look at china – apple is well supported and encouraged by the government for helping create a middle class so that china does not need to rely so much on being the world’s factory to have a future. Chinese govt has called Apple to open more factories inland to help revitalize some regions. Limiting the people movements to the coast which is what is creating the real estate boom and risk. China needs investors in those region and apple is a great partner for this.

    Again – time will prove what you are writing is just false.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    I have always been proven 100% correct in everything I write online.

    Samsung is cutting Apple off, that is why Apple is being told to go find another foundry, Apple is being told to go find screens elsewhere and to go find RAM elsewhere. Apple cannot find alternative suppliers, ergo Apple knows they are dead.

    The USA represents less than 5% of the world population, and shrinking. The Smartphone market is growing everywhere except in the USA. So it is quite simple, if the stupid and bogus US court system wants to make Android non-free or ban Android in the USA, it’s very simple, all Android makers and suppliers are going to fully destroy everything that has to do with propritary US based platforms like iOS and Windows, and Apple and Microsoft will overnight be totally dead. The fact is the US market will then have zero new technology brought into that country. The USA will be like Cuba for cars, you will not be able to find new smartphones nor tablets in the USA, exports from all other countries to the USA are going to get banned.
    The rest of the world can care less about the US market. China and India alone can easily absorb the volume of revenue and profits coming from the USA, China and India can absorb that in just about a year’s time, peanuts. Nobody cares about the USA anymore.

    China is going to kill off Apple also, quite simply because China can use all the same manufacturing and assembly to make Chinese branded smartphones and tablets, China has zero interest in exporting all their profits to Apple’s off-shore carribean bank accounts for Apple to pay no taxes neither in China nor in the USA, nor anywhere else. China has zero interest in continuing to be Apple’s slave. China can easily decide to ban and block all Apple product manufacturing worldwide from one day to the next. Apple should just try to sue Huawei or ZTE for one or other bogus rectangle patent infringement, and just wait and see how many seconds it would then take China to order that all Apple products manufacturing be stopped definitely and all manufacturing contracts fully cancelled. With all manufacturing capacity be used for Chinese brands where the profits can stay in China and where factory workers can be paid a larger share of the consumer electronics revenue and profit.

  • TeachTheControversy

    “I have always been right. You can look back at all my posts since 2000, everything I say comes true. AAPL stock value will be halved within 6-12 months, reply here by then and tell me I was right.” — Charbax, 13 months ago, when AAPL was at $450 http://www.asymco.com/2012/01/31/pricing-paradox/#comment-427834705

    Wrong then, not 100% correct in what you write online I would wager, by a long shot.

  • anjali

    so now we know charbax don’t like apple and is a secret lover of Mr Crohas… that still does not make him 100% right, but things are getting clearer on who he is…

    BTW Tim Cook got 1m shares allocated that he will get only if he stays 10 years at the helm of the company.. it’s not a short term stock allocation.

    it’s a long term reward. also Tim Cook was named CEO in August 2011. at that time Apple stock price was around $380. today the stock is at $420 or so – which is 10% higher which translates into 40 billion dollars worth of value creation under his leadership. he also returned to the shareholder some dividend – already 3 payment – roughly 7,5 billion dollars as well of profit for the shareholder and the cash accumulated by the company grew also by 50 billion since…. not that bad and his base salary is 1,1 million euro

    Compare to Mr Crohas whose company, under his leadership over the same period:

    – wasted $45 millions of capital increase sold to small shareholder at $10 a share. it is now trading at $3,4 a share… a loss of 65% for the investors

    – managed to get the stock price form 12€ to 2,6€ à 80% wipe off
    – lost his market to samsung and apple
    – missed totally the launch of G9 and G10
    – has been investigated by the french SEC
    – has allocated to himself more than 1 million shares of archos with a one year dead line (compare to 10 years for Tim Cook)
    – managed to cash out $13 millions for himself and doubled the rent of the ofice space (which goes to his family owned other company)
    – is paying himself for this superb job $350,000 a year…

    so now that we have facts – I think I know who I prefer to see as CEO…

  • Anjali

    Hey charbax

    You were wrong on archos doing fine financially
    You were wrong on archos being able to sell all they manufacture
    You were wrong about French president investing in archos
    You were wrong on stock price does not matter for archos
    You were wrong arguing the June loss is due to credit impot
    You were wrong about TI future as a leader
    You were wrong about archos being able to dent apple or Samsung or anyone
    You are wrong in all your geopolitical analysis and financial analysis

    The only time you are in your domain of expertise is when you relate facts as you see them and help us see tradeshows and get the latest news. Thanks for this – keep doing so. This is your stuff and you do it well, with enthusiasm.

    So stick to this… Don’t venture on something you don’t understand. You don’t like apple, fine we get it. You love archos, you are a big fan of Mr Crohas ok we get it… do you know he has been profiting personally (he cashed in more than $13m in 2011 after touting at RITZ his company was doing well and G9 will blow everyone off… He has taken the money of little shareholder times and again… For his personal wealth like auto attributing himself lots of free stock, increasing the rent of his office space while being the owner of the premises and thus benefiting, etc… )

    When archos will be chapter 11 later this year (probably August 2013) you will be thankful I avoided you the shame of promising the impossible.

    Just stick to technology – with ethics … You can do that well…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    I’m am fully correct on the whole list.

    Archos is doing perfectly fine, it’s a small company, if they down-size one month or up-size the other, has no bearing on its potential, Archos operates in potential multi-billion dollar industry and France is in need of growth so it’s kind of a given that the French investment banks are going to bank big in Archos, that is what those nationalized banks are to do in France and there is basically only full confidence that Archos is one of the only if not the only consumer electronics company of that type in France or even in Europe. I cannot control the wrong decisions that this or that executive or politician may take. I still expect most OMAP engineers work on further ARM developments at Google, that Archos, can benefit from, so can everyone else in the industry, TI decided to focus on other markets than smartphone/tablet upfront, that is their executive mistake if they really do that. I still don’t believe that they’ll do. Doesn’t change from the fact TI was market leader in performance/sales/value up until mid-2012, OMAP4 is sill the main reference design for Android ICS and JB, and just for some reason OMAP5 is not yet released, that one can also still grab large market shares in Chromebooks, tablets and more. Either way, Archos has to diversify, make Google Glass type devices, make robots, those are likely still best to be TI powered, while for basic tablets Rockchip covers that in Archos market which is 10x better value for money than Apple, Archos can easily continue that for as long as Apple isn’t out of the market. Archos can easily dent Apple and Samsung, it’s only a question of funds, and the funds exist, even in France, even in Europe. The European and French will to destroy Apple is there. And it’s only normal for Henri Crohas to have profited at least a little bit on his company, he hadn’t quite profited from it over decades of simply being a shareholder and not having sold any of his shares all these years. Henri Crohas cashed about 1/1000th what Tim Cook is cashing in on shareholders that are loosing hundreds of Billions of dollars right now.

  • anjali

    BTW – you know that Archos has only roughly 6/7 months of cash left in the bank to run the company, right ? and that they are still operating at a major loss…. so the math is pretty simple…

    – they don’t have money to invest
    – every month that goes by they will struggle a bit more
    – until the last person to leave the office turns off the light…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos never had a lot of cash in the bank. Archos is perfectly fine with not having alot of cash. They can find customers for Gamepads, Titanium, Platinum, Archos Phones, XS series, and those customers can provide as much cash as needed to produce anywhere from good amount to Apple-beating and Nexus-beating amounts. This is business as usual for Archos, they are better positioned than anyone else in the industry in Europe.

  • Juan

    I am sorry to say Charbax that this is not the case… You are right they are used to lose all the money they get from their shareholder – probably 90 millions euros over the past 19 years… The challenge is now there is nowhere to go to raise money – private investors, banks, small shareholders no one trusts archos anymore and a formal capital increase is doomed… They know it so they voted last year – when things were still OK (30 millions in the bank) a financial package (PACEO) that lets them put up to 10% new shares on the market (2,5 millions new shares). Early January, to pay for the layoff plan and save the company from a bad situation they sold 1 million shares for 4 millions euros… But with thé stock plumetting, they cant really get much cash out of the remaining 1,5m and French SEC would probably sue them if they were to do so without a growth plan…

    So here they are – Archos is in trouble. Really… Less than 10 million euro in the bank compared to more than 30 last year, probably 15 millions in stock when they were at 50 million last year… And burning 5 to 6 millions a quarter…

    They need a products with margin that sell… Finger crossed for them.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos has never had more than that kind of amount in the bank. This is business as usual for Archos, and right now Archos has more growth potential products than at any other point in time. From the industry’s first and best hardcore gameplaying device, to the best value latest ipad/nexus beating products to their best ever production quality Gen10 to probably amoung the best value smartphones yet. And Archos has not even started towars the path of the wearable computing and robots where Archos likely is to be the European leader, just by default because near nobody else in Europe is capable. If the Archos stock is low, this is probably the best time since before 2006 to invest in Archos again.

  • GoodIdea

    Must be a great time to invest in Apple as well, then.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    yea right, $400 Billion for a company that does a piece of electronics, I just saw an iphone copy running Android sold for $45 in Shenzhen, why would anyone pay 10 times more for an Apple device that pretty much does the same. The potential and growth is only for the companies who’s business model is to sell high value products, thus good features for good price, that has always been Archos core business model. Don’t invest in companies which only business model is to sell overpriced under-featured devices, there is no future in that in a world where Android open source free market competition dominate the world.

  • Juan

    Come on…

    There is a future for companies making a profit Charbax – don’t get it wrong… It is company loosing money that are doomed…

    Apple will make probably 40+ billion profit this year… How much for archos ?

    On product price look at iSupply for the cost for the parts of an iPhone. It is about 210 dollars… Great parts do cost money… How can you compare with a $50 phone… Also on cost you then need to add all the iOS Engineeing cost, the marketing cost, the transport cost, the various taxes, the commission for the resellers and margin for apple.

    Then you also need to add their operating costs for iCloud which is a free service as well as getting iOS software updates for free (they still offer the updates for the 3GS which is 4 year old… You can’t say that for android)

    Ultimately they make a Reasonable margin near 30%…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Go away please. iphone cost $100 to make. Apple sells it for $650. Apple are the worst type of mafia crooks in this industry. They suck and if you do not understand that, you suck. So please, go away.

    Archos is a tiny small market cap with giant possibilities that are within one or two decisions by either the one or other distributor, the one or other large investor/partner, the one or other French Government or EU projects to invest in technological opportunities, for Archos to overnight be worth just about 100 times more than it is today.

    Apple is only one Android phone, Android tablet and Chromebook away from being worth just about 3x less than they are today.

    An Archos company worth 70 Million euros that can easily be worth $1 Billion or $10 Billion tomorrow is a much more interesting investment than a $400 Billion company that can only be worth $120 Billion and less tomorrow.

    But hey, if you do not understand this, then go away, go away, go waste some other people’s time. Stop being useless here. Bye.

  • ArchosDreams

    What is stopping any other company doing what you say Archos will and taking their business? Why aren’t they in a worse position competing with all these $45 Chinese phones when they don’t even have the advantage of a different operating system?

  • Anjali

    Charbax I went to see iSupply info


    So are they lying as well according to you ? they are crap at what they do ?

    It seems you have a problem with numbers, finance and business strategies,,,

    Why anyone who disagree with you would have to get lost ? Especially when they are polite and document their point pretty clearly – whereas the only info you give is that supposedly you know better ?

    Can’t you accept a bit of a challenge? Can’t you consider that archos is in trouble and assess the situation as it stands? Yes if someone gives them tons of money they could produce more and possibly sell way more… But can’t you see NO-ONE is giving them money because they lost the trust of investors (esp. The CEO). So with very limited cash to invest in stock to sell, in a highly competitive market you know and describe, where google and amazon products are sold at cost – can they cover the 4 to 5 millions euros they spend quarterly ?

    At this point in time, this does not look good and it would be fair from you to recognize this rather than try to convince everyone (and fail) that all is OK for them… Not the case… They will have their largest loss ever, they fired 25% of the staff and cash is low and they compete with giants with deep pockets…

  • Juan

    Not true – a yearl ago they had between stock and cash roughy 80 millions to operate. Today they have barely 25… Do you see the problem ?

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Not true. Archos never had more than 10-15 million dollars to operate.

  • Anjali

    Come on Charbax… Another blatant lie everyone can see…

    Read this:

    In may 2011 they raised 40 million dollars and the company has been profitable in 2011 with 7 million dollars…

    If you read http://www.archos.com/corporate/investors/financial_doc/ARCHOS_CP_RESULTATS_2011-FR.pdf

    You will see They ended 2011 and started 2012 with net treasury at more than 30 million dollars (27.5 millions euros).

    And in the full report page 25 you can see they owe 25m euros to their vendors and page 41 you can see the stock is at 34 millions (so another 9 millions euros for them).

    Total = 27,5m euros in cash + 9 millions euros net in stock

    So much for your business understanding…

  • Fred

    Anjali – thanks for the research. This is actually a much worse situation than I thought for Archos, they are in deep trouble.

    Your fact finding also proves something else – that Charbax, when he writes above “I have always been proven 100% correct in everything I write online.” Is just very proud of himself but this is unfortunately not true.

    Charbax – you will lose your readers if you continue… (I saw that fosspatent blog has actually way more followers than Charbax. )

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    I Have 23 million video views and fosspatents has zero. Nobody trusts fosspatents, everyone knows it’s a fake blog promoted on the fake aggregator techmeme (ex-Intel propaganda person), all setup just to spread lies against Google every single day.

    You two people should go away, I don’t want to waste my time with you useless people anymore, just go away, go waste someone elses time. I’m actually in Shenzhen later today to see the actual market facts for Archos and for everyone else in the industry. You just go hangout with the fake idiots at fosspatent land, what a joke, foss what a joke, that guy is completely anti-foss and a joke of a site. Go away.

  • Jean-Jacques

    We don’t care about bloggers’ ego… We know they are just oversized… And yes your video interviews are successful – good job there. (Although naysayers will argue that this is what you do best, let people who know explain and you just hold the microphone and camera).

    Anyway we care about facts.

    So charbax what about your claim they never had more than 10-15 millions dollars to operate ? Looks like they had way way more in 2011 and 2012 which they actively invested in 2011 to double revenue but then lost it all in 2012 with G9, G10 and other products such as childpad or smart DECT phone etc being a big flop.

    What is your take on archos prospect, how large the loss they will announce for FY12? Can they survive given the trend for the past 2 years?

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    It’s just ridiculous to talk about this further with you gang of confused people. Archos scale of profit or losses is several orders of magnitude smaller than Apple, Samsung, Asus, Acer, Dell, HP, Nokia, yet Archos is able to play in the same court as those guys. Archos does all that employing several orders of magnitude less people. Archos is the leader in getting Shenzhen technology to US and EU markets. Archos engineers have proven time and time again every single generation to be among the most inventive and most talented engineers in the whole worldwide industry. It’s just completely pathetic for people like you to continue to bother me with your pathetic nonsense about Archos being out of cash, or about Archos being out of prospects for growth. Archos has never operated with enough cash to manufacture more than maximum a few hundred thousand devices per manufacturing cycle (2-3-4 months depending on type of product), that does not change, few years ago each product was perhaps more expensive so cash may have been higher and thus risk higher per cycle. Now devices are much cheaper to make thus cash needed to make 2 million tablets per year is proportionally lower, and profits, revenue proportionally lower too. For Archos to dominate in sales volume, revenue, profits, it’s only a question of one or the other billionaire investor, either private investor or Governmental investor like France or EU, to come and make that happen. And it makes no sense for neither to not happen, it can always happen any day, as Archos is the best opportunity for anyone who wants anything to do with electronics in Europe. Anyways, go away, I do not care about your investments, go buy Apple stock and go loose it all elsewhere. Bye.

  • Hmmm

    If Archos has operated for years while never having more money than they need to manufacture a few hundred thousand devices per cycle then they don’t sound like a successful business. Why would private or government investors be interested in throwing money into a hole like that for, at best, little to no return?

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Ya right, no return owning the consumer electronics space for a French European company vs Apple USA and vs Samsung/Huawei/Sony Asia. Yea right, just think that. The consumer electronics market is none other than the worlds most important market, near in front of Oil, Gas, in front of TV and Telecom. You just think this is useless, have fun being an ignorant of the world.

  • Hmmery

    If Archos is making a healthy return then why hasn’t their cash pile and ability to manufacture units grown over the years? I must conclude that they are barely breaking even.

  • Jean-Jacques

    But apple and Samsung already own the consumer electronic space… And Chinese companies with billionaire shareholder are rising…

    What track record does archos have to pretend being able to own anything? And to use your example of apple being doomed because they need the parts from Samsung – where are archos component factories ? If apple is doomed then archos is even more doomed,,, they would need tens of billions of dollars investment to just be able to start playing… Do you think anyone will give 10 billions euro to a companÿ worth 70 millions?
    Where on earth did you learn finance ? Your story just does not hold…

  • Jean-Jacques

    What you are saying is exactly why archos is doomed – they don’t know how to sell product at a profit… they raise cash from shareholders which they use to fund the operations and produce hardware and software at a loss – to bring “good value for money” chinese products… Then the loose all their cash and for the past 6/7 years managed to go tap again investors money for the next cycle. Th challenge is that no-one wants to give them money anymore and while they managed to raise 40 millions dollars in may 2011, they now lost all of this money and were able to only raise 4 millions in January, yes price of components have dropped but competition is also selling at cost (google, amazon) and with 10 times less money raised its going to be difficult to stay in the game.

    You are right, they would need a billionaire willing to lose millions to help them challenge apple, Samsung or google – but billionaire are usually smart financial people… And archos track record at delivering profits is really poor… So no one is investing, French government does not care one minute about Archos – they have much larger problems than a 75 people company in france which is importing Chinese products… They care about “made in france” and about companies with export capabilities.

    Will come back in a couple weeks and we can discuss their Fy12 revenue and prospect statements… Will be interesting to compare your view and the CFO view.

    Enjoy china!

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    I’m not going to read your crap. Archos has always worked with a 10-20% profit margin on their products, which is the only correct business model while Apple’s only hope to keep a high stock price is to continue to keep a 400% profit margin on the iPhone, which obviously is impossible. Chinese and Indian people buy iPhone copies that run Android just as smoothly for sub-$45 today. There is no future in Apple’s business model of overpriced proprietary un-featured devices while there is plenty of future in Archos reasonably priced, value feature rich devices.

  • WeirdFacts

    But you said it yourself: “Archos never had more than 10-15 million dollars to operate.” If this is true, this means that their overall margin must be, at best, 0%, because they have no profit to increase this amount. Doesn’t sound like making “10-20% profit margin on their products” is a very good or sustainable business model. Why would anyone invest money in them for no return?

  • Jean-Jacques

    Archos has indeed operated at a 0% to tentatively 20% margin but AT A LOSS… This is totally unsustainable in this industry where you need innovation and scale… They are still in business because they raised AND LOST more than 100 million dollars in the past 7 years.

    They burn 7 million dollar a quarter – at 10% margin they would need revenue of 70 millions dollars a quarter – and that would just cover the operating cost, no investments. And to deliver 70m in a quarter, given their production cycle of 3 to 4 months, they would need at the very least 60 million dollars of working capital (invested in stock) and they have at best $20 millions in the bank at the moment for stock…

    Do the math…

    Regarding apple they operate at a sub 40% not 400% margin. Read their financial reports.

  • anjali

    the news is in – Samsung has to pay $600 millions to Apple. this is the Judge final decision. and there might be more to come.

    Based on today’s order, Apple is entitled to the sum of

    $598,908,892 ($598.9 million) (the part of the jury’s damages award that stands),

    whatever a new jury is going to determine as the appropriate damages figure with respect to the 14 Samsung products listed further above,

    prejudgment interest at the 52-week Treasury bill rate, and

    supplemental damages (for the period between the verdict and the final judgment) based on actual sales figures.

    That sum could be less than $1 billion, but it could also be more.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    stop posting about fosspatents, everything fosspatents writes is fake and BS made up. Samsung has to pay $0 to Apple. All the BS reports are nothing other than BS. A bogus court in Cupertino has ZERO say in the validity of Apple’s totally bogus patents. Apple’s patents are all totally worthless worldwide. Apple never invented anything. In fact Archos invented most of Apple’s technologies, so if anyone deserves to get paid $1 Billion for bogus infringement, it’s got to be Archos who gets $1 Billion from Apple.

  • Steve

    LOL… You are just a clown. So funny. I like your humor…

  • Franck

    Sorry Charbax – the archos community as expressed in many articles has been shocked that the new sexy tablets are rebranded Onda’s tablets. archos (or arnova) in the past used to design the tablets and outsource production. The engineer mind was archos. Now nothing in there is their work – they are trying to sell someone else work. This is commerce, not innovation anymore… And as a fan I’ve been highly disappointed (especially as it is easy to see the markup they add whereas if you buy from Onda – even with tax, freight and duties you get a better product at a cheaper price…. Shame on them.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    You have no idea what you are talking about. Onda is not for sale in Europe and the USA. Archos is providing one of the best values for RK3066 and Allwinner A31 in Europe and the USA which are 2 of the best value Chinese ARM Processor platforms at the moment. You have zero idea what you are talking about. Onda is the brand that is allowed to sell those Archos products in China. None other. It means nothing what gets tested by FCC, FCC needs to test devices before they get released and FCC does not care if the logo is the final one once it gets sold.

  • Anjali

    WHAT A LIE!!!!





  • DuPont88

    @charbax –> Archos is doing SO well and has so much cash and so much “no problem to sell” that they just announced they are firing 25% or the sales force and Mr Crohas seems put to the side focusing on R&D,,,, indeed why keep so many employees when the products sell so well,,,

    Really bad time for archos, they will go chapter 11 within 6 month, may be earlier,

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos sales force is 4 peoplr. They are not firing 25%, one of the guys is moving to new zealand or something. Archos has zero problems selling their devices, the worldwide demand is huge. Archos has always been a company where 90% of the employees are among the worlds best engineers. This is just normal reassuring instutional investors talk.

  • Anjali

    May be you need to read the following press release from the company…


    There are just some facts you can’t lie about…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Re-organizing is normal, there are institutional investors that demand it. The French Government should come in and invest in Archos so that Archos can become the worlds biggest consumer electronics company, that’d be good for the Paris region. But if they don’t, Archos simply continues being a company that is mainly focused on R&D and to the rate that they can afford to do it, maybe 90% of Archos is R&D engineers, real inventors and innovators, and that tries to limit expenses in all other areas of the company.

  • Jerome

    Archos is restructuring – letting go 25% of its employee. CEO to only focus on R&D and leave the operational parts to CFO… tough time @ Archos…

  • DuPont88

    Weird – where did this go? Censorship ?


    DuPont88 • 5 hours ago −
    @charbax –> Archos is doing SO well and has so much cash and so much “no problem to sell” that they just announced they are firing 25% or the sales force and Mr Crohas seems put to the side focusing on R&D,,,, indeed why keep so many employees when the products sell so well,,,

    Really bad time for archos, they will go chapter 11 within 6 month, may be earlier,
    0 •Reply•Share ›

    Charbax Mod DuPont88 • 5 hours ago −
    Archos sales force is 4 peoplr. They are not firing 25%, one of the guys is moving to new zealand or something. Archos has zero problems selling their devices, the worldwide demand is huge. Archos has always been a company where 90% of the employees are among the worlds best engineers. This is just normal reassuring instutional investors talk.

  • Censorship

    DuPont88 • 5 hours ago −
    @charbax –> Archos is doing SO well and has so much cash and so much “no problem to sell” that they just announced they are firing 25% or the sales force and Mr Crohas seems put to the side focusing on R&D,,,, indeed why keep so many employees when the products sell so well,,,

    Really bad time for archos, they will go chapter 11 within 6 month, may be earlier,
    0 •Reply•Share ›

    Charbax Mod DuPont88 • 5 hours ago −
    Archos sales force is 4 peoplr. They are not firing 25%, one of the guys is moving to new zealand or something. Archos has zero problems selling their devices, the worldwide demand is huge. Archos has always been a company where 90% of the employees are among the worlds best engineers. This is just normal reassuring instutional investors talk.

  • Censorship

    Why is this text below disappearing every day?

  • Censorship

    Charbax – what do you think of the future of Archos now ? they are letting go 50 people, restructuring big ways the R&D dept and transferring to china the tablet design… That’s not very positive right? do you have any insights?

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Stop posting the same thing all the time. The original messages are there. Archos is a riny small company, them having to let go 25% of staff is like Google having to let go 0.05% of their staff. The numbers are absolutely insignificant
    Of course its terrible for the people who may be fired. But I do not believe this happrns overnight and there is ample enough time for this decision to be overturned by hugely successful Q4 coming up also there is no reason the French Government isn’t going to decide to invest sooner in Archos so soon enough you’ll read stories of them hiring 250% more employees instead of them firing 25%, and most Archos employees maybe 90% are to remain engineers and they are world class best engineers in the world, they can easily challenge any enigneers from google, asus, samsung, apple anyday.

  • fred

    The results are in. Q4 has been just like Q3, just like Q2… terrible. The CFO is announcing more loss. Archos is going down in 2013… sorry…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Yea right, selling millions of devices for a hundred employee company, how terrible! Archos is selling 100x more than Apple if you calculate the sales per employee ratio.

  • fred

    Charbax… why do you lie on things that are so easily verifiable…

    Apple $54.5 billion for Q4. 80,000 employees = $681k per head
    Archos $65 millions for Q4. 199 employees = $326k per head

    numbers taken in legal reporting from the companies.

    even assuming archos had already fired the 25% planned for Q4 that is still $433k per head at archos…

    so not Only Archos does not sell 100x more than Apple if I calculate sales per employee but Apple sell twice as much…

    and of course they don’t sell million of devices….

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos has 100 employees and I’m talking number of devices sold not scammy overpriced revenue. Apple has been way way overpriced for years and that is why the Apple stock is crashing down where it deserves to be.

  • Fred

    I suggest you read the FY11 report page 14


    199 employees at the start of the year and they probably added a few during the first months and are now laying off 25% of them.

    Archos never published any number of devices sold and its clearly not many millions given their total revenue of 150 millions for the year…

    Anyway – that is not the point – they are unfortunately failing big way… Probably lost $40 millions of dollars in 2012…

    I’ll come back in Q2… But you can clearly see the trend since Q2 2102… It has just been downwards death spiral. Sorry you can’t see that…

  • Archosfanisdown

    Charbax – any comment on the future of archos?

  • fred

    charbax – any comment on Archos restructuring? you know the company – what’s its future? thanks

  • Fred

    @Charbax –> what do you think of the restructuration at Archos? what’s the company’s future? thanks

  • Pingback: Highlights of 2012 on ARMdevices.net – ARMdevices.net()

  • anjali

    Archos is almost dead…

    results are abysmal, the founder is getting kicked out operational responsibility formally.


    oh well – I’m sure Charbax will say all is OK, no problem…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Nothing changes, Archos lost peanuts money compared to the scale of things. You’re just jealous because you have done nothing in your life that is worth anything. Go back in your cave.

  • Anjali

    You have no clue on this Charbax… I am actually an business angel now after successfully selling my company a few years ago. I understand business, technology, marketing and sales and can read a financial report. I speak fluent french so fully understand what they write in their accounting statements (may I remind you that you confused crédit impôt recherche with an accounting write off – so your track record there and for the past 4 quarters actually is pretty lame).

    Why do you think there is not even a glimpse of forecast in their reporting?
    You argue they lost nothing… They lost ALL the money they had raised in 2011 – all of it… Thé cash available now is just a few months of operations and they keep bleeding money.. The writing is on the wall but you can’t admit this….

    They will need massive cash injection to survive but it’s going tough to find investors…

    We will see… They have a few months to prove they can do it….

  • Anjali

    for the french readers



    Créé en 1998, Archos a longtemps porté les espoirs de voir une entreprise française de tenir tête aux géants de la Silicon Valley. Elle n’aura pas réussi. Alors que les résultats de ses concurrents explosent, les siens n’ont pas fait le bonheur de ses actionnaires.

    Face à Apple et Samsung, il n’a pas réussi à tirer son épingle d’un jeu dont il est l’un des acteurs historiques

    La conséquence ne s’est pas fait attendre. Henri Crohas, fondateur de l’entreprise, a quitté ce week-end ses fonctions opérationnelles

  • Anjali

    Hello Charbax


    here are Q1 numbers.

    Asia and USA are collapsing -66%
    Europe is collapsing by 26%

    how not to be pessimistic… no one will give them money to save them again this time…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos is the top European company in this sector, the most promising french tech company and you have nothing to contribute here so just go away.

  • riparchos

    R.I.P. Archos

  • Anjali

    They no longer are… Have a look at Parrot Charbax. , they are twice as big in Q1 and same size in consumer electronics . Parrot AR.Drone 2, Parrot Zik are at 294% growth YoY where archos is collapsing.

    Lexibook is also now larger than Archos as well…

    Both companies are profitable, have not laid off 25% of their staff, are coming up with their own products and innovation and to me appear thus having more potential than archos which has been bleeding money for the past 10 years and survived only by getting cash injection from the stock market and loosing it…

    Wiko in the smartphone business has been noticed too…

    And I can probably give you a few more fast growing companies in the same segment which are doing much better…

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Parrot and Lexibook make nothing related to Archos. Parrot is in-car and play stuff. Good for Parrot to grow in that, and they should be supported by French and EU governments too. Archos is the leader in the worlds biggest sector which is the one where Apple made all its money, ergo it only makes sense to identify Archos as the most promising tech company in Europe. You’ve never done anything yourself, it’s the only reason that you have to spend so much time bothering me. Just go away, go chat on the Parrot or Lexibook forums.

  • archos_fan

    im so sad that archos is dead. how are you doing about it?

  • weedman

    O.M.G. So archos is dead? I love archos, no no no no.

  • Anjali


    you don’t think lexibook is in the same space ?

    what about the gamepad? isn’t that play stuff like Parrot ?

    Archos has been trying to sustain its position and volume of tablet sales through massive discounts and loosing tons of money doing so.. the challenge is that their pockets are not as deep as Google (Nexus) or Amazon (Kindle fire) and so they are now in trouble.

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Just go chat on lexibook forum, stop wasting my time. Archos has nothing to do with parrot and lexibook. The parrot and lexibook markets are 100 times smaller overall in potential than the market where Samsung and Apple are in, which is where Archos has a chance to dominate. Just go away please, never post on my site again, you suck. I have many other things to do than to waste my time on you.

  • godguy

    Oh god, is this the end of Archos? I’m praying for them.

  • Anjali

    Archos badly needs money…

    The CEO and CFO sent a letter to shareholder asking for their support…


    How dare they doing so after burning more than $130 millions of the cash of shareholder in the recent years without returning any value.

    This is going to fail badly and archos will go south due to lack of shareholder money to burn in vain…

    The writing has been on the wall for a while now,,,

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    I thought I banned you. Archos asking for a few million Euros is totally normal, Apple shareholders just lost $230 Billion in a few months. Archos share holders can only make a lot of money if Archos has the funds to expand on their different market opportunities. Google Glass is just barely being shown now, Archos can easily be European leader in wearable computing, robots and many other emerging markets, not only tablets.

  • Anjali

    I am still around…

    Archos got $40+ millions to launch their tablet ventures… What did they do with it ? they lost it all in 2012…

    And now they want more money again to keep funding their crazy new business approach – imported smartphones…

    I hope no one is going to be foolish enough to give them money,,,

    I’d be glad seeing them revolutionize wearable computing devices with their own innovation and inventions – they still have enough cash in the bank for this may be,,,

    Their smartphone endeavor is doomed, too much competition, no margin, massive need for advertising, no experience in this domain,,,

  • http://ARMdevices.net/ Charbax

    Archos can easily get hundreds millions more euros from investors and from Banks, including Segolene Royal’s public investment bank which main goal is to use France’s funds to invest in companies like Archos that have huge potential for growth, that have huge potential to compete with companies like Apple and Samsung. Archos smartphones is an easy home run. It costs Archos very little money to develop and bring to the market, yet Archos can easily grab quite good sales, there aren’t so many choices on the market for $99-$249 unsubsidized smartphones in Europe and USA. Archos can become one of the Android phones of choice on new pre-paid-only carriers like Free Mobile in France and T-Mobile in the USA. Again, risk is very small, growth potential is huge, even with the very large competition. In Europe and USA there are still hundreds of millions of people to buy smartphones, all iphone users are switching to much cheaper and better Android devices when they upgrade. Just look at alternatives on the market with the exact same Qualcomm processors and screen size options, there aren’t that many available in Europe and USA, which is where Archos makes most of its sales. I’m not talking about what’s available in China and India, those markets are Apple’s only hope and Samsung’s dominance, I’m talking about Europe and USA where Apple does not want to compete on lower price and where Samsung also prefers to have people focus on their high-end Galaxy S4 class of device. Again Archos just aims at 20% or so profit margin on whichever market they enter, which is the correct strategy, instead of trying to do 400% profit margins like Apple or 200% profit margins like Samsung.

  • Anjali

    No one wants to give them money,,, it has not happen and will not happen,,, everyone think they are doomed from day one and they lost so much money that there is no trust for a French consumer electronic company,,, it’s not going to happen – this is my bet. And it will be easy to see, just wait for the coming months,