No one wants to give them money,,, it has not happen and will not happen,,, everyone think they are doomed from day one and they lost so much money that there is no trust for a French consumer electronic company,,, it’s not going to happen – this is my bet. And it will be easy to see, just wait for the coming months,

Archos can easily get hundreds millions more euros from investors and from Banks, including Segolene Royal’s public investment bank which main goal is to use France’s funds to invest in companies like Archos that have huge potential for growth, that have huge potential to compete with companies like Apple and Samsung. Archos smartphones is an easy home run. It costs Archos very little money to develop and bring to the market, yet Archos can easily grab quite good sales, there aren’t so many choices on the market for $99-$249 unsubsidized smartphones in Europe and USA. Archos can become one of the Android phones of choice on new pre-paid-only carriers like Free Mobile in France and T-Mobile in the USA. Again, risk is very small, growth potential is huge, even with the very large competition. In Europe and USA there are still hundreds of millions of people to buy smartphones, all iphone users are switching to much cheaper and better Android devices when they upgrade. Just look at alternatives on the market with the exact same Qualcomm processors and screen size options, there aren’t that many available in Europe and USA, which is where Archos makes most of its sales. I’m not talking about what’s available in China and India, those markets are Apple’s only hope and Samsung’s dominance, I’m talking about Europe and USA where Apple does not want to compete on lower price and where Samsung also prefers to have people focus on their high-end Galaxy S4 class of device. Again Archos just aims at 20% or so profit margin on whichever market they enter, which is the correct strategy, instead of trying to do 400% profit margins like Apple or 200% profit margins like Samsung.

I am still around…

Archos got $40+ millions to launch their tablet ventures… What did they do with it ? they lost it all in 2012…

And now they want more money again to keep funding their crazy new business approach – imported smartphones…

I hope no one is going to be foolish enough to give them money,,,

I’d be glad seeing them revolutionize wearable computing devices with their own innovation and inventions – they still have enough cash in the bank for this may be,,,

Their smartphone endeavor is doomed, too much competition, no margin, massive need for advertising, no experience in this domain,,,

I thought I banned you. Archos asking for a few million Euros is totally normal, Apple shareholders just lost $230 Billion in a few months. Archos share holders can only make a lot of money if Archos has the funds to expand on their different market opportunities. Google Glass is just barely being shown now, Archos can easily be European leader in wearable computing, robots and many other emerging markets, not only tablets.

The CEO and CFO sent a letter to shareholder asking for their support…

http://www.archos.com/corporate/investors/financial_doc/ARCHOS_-_Lettre_aux_actionnaires_AG_2013_.pdf

How dare they doing so after burning more than $130 millions of the cash of shareholder in the recent years without returning any value.

This is going to fail badly and archos will go south due to lack of shareholder money to burn in vain…

The writing has been on the wall for a while now,,,

Oh god, is this the end of Archos? I’m praying for them.

Just go chat on lexibook forum, stop wasting my time. Archos has nothing to do with parrot and lexibook. The parrot and lexibook markets are 100 times smaller overall in potential than the market where Samsung and Apple are in, which is where Archos has a chance to dominate. Just go away please, never post on my site again, you suck. I have many other things to do than to waste my time on you.

http://www.lexibook.com/fr/Netbooks-Tablettes/Tablettes-Kids-Pad®.html

you don’t think lexibook is in the same space ?

what about the gamepad? isn’t that play stuff like Parrot ?

Archos has been trying to sustain its position and volume of tablet sales through massive discounts and loosing tons of money doing so.. the challenge is that their pockets are not as deep as Google (Nexus) or Amazon (Kindle fire) and so they are now in trouble.

O.M.G. So archos is dead? I love archos, no no no no.

im so sad that archos is dead. how are you doing about it?

Parrot and Lexibook make nothing related to Archos. Parrot is in-car and play stuff. Good for Parrot to grow in that, and they should be supported by French and EU governments too. Archos is the leader in the worlds biggest sector which is the one where Apple made all its money, ergo it only makes sense to identify Archos as the most promising tech company in Europe. You’ve never done anything yourself, it’s the only reason that you have to spend so much time bothering me. Just go away, go chat on the Parrot or Lexibook forums.

They no longer are… Have a look at Parrot Charbax. , they are twice as big in Q1 and same size in consumer electronics . Parrot AR.Drone 2, Parrot Zik are at 294% growth YoY where archos is collapsing.

Lexibook is also now larger than Archos as well…

Both companies are profitable, have not laid off 25% of their staff, are coming up with their own products and innovation and to me appear thus having more potential than archos which has been bleeding money for the past 10 years and survived only by getting cash injection from the stock market and loosing it…

Wiko in the smartphone business has been noticed too…

And I can probably give you a few more fast growing companies in the same segment which are doing much better…

R.I.P. Archos

Archos is the top European company in this sector, the most promising french tech company and you have nothing to contribute here so just go away.

Hello Charbax

http://www.archos.com/corporate/investors/financial_doc/ARCHOS-Communique_Chiffre_d_affaires_Q1_2013.pdf

here are Q1 numbers.

Asia and USA are collapsing -66%
Europe is collapsing by 26%

how not to be pessimistic… no one will give them money to save them again this time…

for the french readers

http://www.01net.com/editorial/589493/henri-crohas-quitte-la-direction-generale-d-archos/

tidbits

Créé en 1998, Archos a longtemps porté les espoirs de voir une entreprise française de tenir tête aux géants de la Silicon Valley. Elle n’aura pas réussi. Alors que les résultats de ses concurrents explosent, les siens n’ont pas fait le bonheur de ses actionnaires.

Face à Apple et Samsung, il n’a pas réussi à tirer son épingle d’un jeu dont il est l’un des acteurs historiques

La conséquence ne s’est pas fait attendre. Henri Crohas, fondateur de l’entreprise, a quitté ce week-end ses fonctions opérationnelles

You have no clue on this Charbax… I am actually an business angel now after successfully selling my company a few years ago. I understand business, technology, marketing and sales and can read a financial report. I speak fluent french so fully understand what they write in their accounting statements (may I remind you that you confused crédit impôt recherche with an accounting write off – so your track record there and for the past 4 quarters actually is pretty lame).

Why do you think there is not even a glimpse of forecast in their reporting?
You argue they lost nothing… They lost ALL the money they had raised in 2011 – all of it… Thé cash available now is just a few months of operations and they keep bleeding money.. The writing is on the wall but you can’t admit this….

They will need massive cash injection to survive but it’s going tough to find investors…

We will see… They have a few months to prove they can do it….

Nothing changes, Archos lost peanuts money compared to the scale of things. You’re just jealous because you have done nothing in your life that is worth anything. Go back in your cave.

results are abysmal, the founder is getting kicked out operational responsibility formally.

http://www.archos.com/corporate/investors/financial_doc/Communique_sur_resultat_2012_-_22_mars_2013.pdf

oh well – I’m sure Charbax will say all is OK, no problem…

Archos has indeed operated at a 0% to tentatively 20% margin but AT A LOSS… This is totally unsustainable in this industry where you need innovation and scale… They are still in business because they raised AND LOST more than 100 million dollars in the past 7 years.

They burn 7 million dollar a quarter – at 10% margin they would need revenue of 70 millions dollars a quarter – and that would just cover the operating cost, no investments. And to deliver 70m in a quarter, given their production cycle of 3 to 4 months, they would need at the very least 60 million dollars of working capital (invested in stock) and they have at best $20 millions in the bank at the moment for stock…

Do the math…

Regarding apple they operate at a sub 40% not 400% margin. Read their financial reports.

But you said it yourself: “Archos never had more than 10-15 million dollars to operate.” If this is true, this means that their overall margin must be, at best, 0%, because they have no profit to increase this amount. Doesn’t sound like making “10-20% profit margin on their products” is a very good or sustainable business model. Why would anyone invest money in them for no return?

I’m not going to read your crap. Archos has always worked with a 10-20% profit margin on their products, which is the only correct business model while Apple’s only hope to keep a high stock price is to continue to keep a 400% profit margin on the iPhone, which obviously is impossible. Chinese and Indian people buy iPhone copies that run Android just as smoothly for sub-$45 today. There is no future in Apple’s business model of overpriced proprietary un-featured devices while there is plenty of future in Archos reasonably priced, value feature rich devices.

But apple and Samsung already own the consumer electronic space… And Chinese companies with billionaire shareholder are rising…

What track record does archos have to pretend being able to own anything? And to use your example of apple being doomed because they need the parts from Samsung – where are archos component factories ? If apple is doomed then archos is even more doomed,,, they would need tens of billions of dollars investment to just be able to start playing… Do you think anyone will give 10 billions euro to a companÿ worth 70 millions?
Where on earth did you learn finance ? Your story just does not hold…

What you are saying is exactly why archos is doomed – they don’t know how to sell product at a profit… they raise cash from shareholders which they use to fund the operations and produce hardware and software at a loss – to bring “good value for money” chinese products… Then the loose all their cash and for the past 6/7 years managed to go tap again investors money for the next cycle. Th challenge is that no-one wants to give them money anymore and while they managed to raise 40 millions dollars in may 2011, they now lost all of this money and were able to only raise 4 millions in January, yes price of components have dropped but competition is also selling at cost (google, amazon) and with 10 times less money raised its going to be difficult to stay in the game.

You are right, they would need a billionaire willing to lose millions to help them challenge apple, Samsung or google – but billionaire are usually smart financial people… And archos track record at delivering profits is really poor… So no one is investing, French government does not care one minute about Archos – they have much larger problems than a 75 people company in france which is importing Chinese products… They care about “made in france” and about companies with export capabilities.

Will come back in a couple weeks and we can discuss their Fy12 revenue and prospect statements… Will be interesting to compare your view and the CFO view.

Enjoy china!

If Archos is making a healthy return then why hasn’t their cash pile and ability to manufacture units grown over the years? I must conclude that they are barely breaking even.

Ya right, no return owning the consumer electronics space for a French European company vs Apple USA and vs Samsung/Huawei/Sony Asia. Yea right, just think that. The consumer electronics market is none other than the worlds most important market, near in front of Oil, Gas, in front of TV and Telecom. You just think this is useless, have fun being an ignorant of the world.

If Archos has operated for years while never having more money than they need to manufacture a few hundred thousand devices per cycle then they don’t sound like a successful business. Why would private or government investors be interested in throwing money into a hole like that for, at best, little to no return?

It’s just ridiculous to talk about this further with you gang of confused people. Archos scale of profit or losses is several orders of magnitude smaller than Apple, Samsung, Asus, Acer, Dell, HP, Nokia, yet Archos is able to play in the same court as those guys. Archos does all that employing several orders of magnitude less people. Archos is the leader in getting Shenzhen technology to US and EU markets. Archos engineers have proven time and time again every single generation to be among the most inventive and most talented engineers in the whole worldwide industry. It’s just completely pathetic for people like you to continue to bother me with your pathetic nonsense about Archos being out of cash, or about Archos being out of prospects for growth. Archos has never operated with enough cash to manufacture more than maximum a few hundred thousand devices per manufacturing cycle (2-3-4 months depending on type of product), that does not change, few years ago each product was perhaps more expensive so cash may have been higher and thus risk higher per cycle. Now devices are much cheaper to make thus cash needed to make 2 million tablets per year is proportionally lower, and profits, revenue proportionally lower too. For Archos to dominate in sales volume, revenue, profits, it’s only a question of one or the other billionaire investor, either private investor or Governmental investor like France or EU, to come and make that happen. And it makes no sense for neither to not happen, it can always happen any day, as Archos is the best opportunity for anyone who wants anything to do with electronics in Europe. Anyways, go away, I do not care about your investments, go buy Apple stock and go loose it all elsewhere. Bye.

We don’t care about bloggers’ ego… We know they are just oversized… And yes your video interviews are successful – good job there. (Although naysayers will argue that this is what you do best, let people who know explain and you just hold the microphone and camera).

Anyway we care about facts.

So charbax what about your claim they never had more than 10-15 millions dollars to operate ? Looks like they had way way more in 2011 and 2012 which they actively invested in 2011 to double revenue but then lost it all in 2012 with G9, G10 and other products such as childpad or smart DECT phone etc being a big flop.

What is your take on archos prospect, how large the loss they will announce for FY12? Can they survive given the trend for the past 2 years?

I Have 23 million video views and fosspatents has zero. Nobody trusts fosspatents, everyone knows it’s a fake blog promoted on the fake aggregator techmeme (ex-Intel propaganda person), all setup just to spread lies against Google every single day.

You two people should go away, I don’t want to waste my time with you useless people anymore, just go away, go waste someone elses time. I’m actually in Shenzhen later today to see the actual market facts for Archos and for everyone else in the industry. You just go hangout with the fake idiots at fosspatent land, what a joke, foss what a joke, that guy is completely anti-foss and a joke of a site. Go away.

Anjali – thanks for the research. This is actually a much worse situation than I thought for Archos, they are in deep trouble.

Your fact finding also proves something else – that Charbax, when he writes above “I have always been proven 100% correct in everything I write online.” Is just very proud of himself but this is unfortunately not true.

Charbax – you will lose your readers if you continue… (I saw that fosspatent blog has actually way more followers than Charbax. )

Charbax I went to see iSupply info

http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/pages/iPhone5-Carries-$199-BOM-Virtual-Teardown-Reveals.aspx

So are they lying as well according to you ? they are crap at what they do ?

It seems you have a problem with numbers, finance and business strategies,,,

Why anyone who disagree with you would have to get lost ? Especially when they are polite and document their point pretty clearly – whereas the only info you give is that supposedly you know better ?

Can’t you accept a bit of a challenge? Can’t you consider that archos is in trouble and assess the situation as it stands? Yes if someone gives them tons of money they could produce more and possibly sell way more… But can’t you see NO-ONE is giving them money because they lost the trust of investors (esp. The CEO). So with very limited cash to invest in stock to sell, in a highly competitive market you know and describe, where google and amazon products are sold at cost – can they cover the 4 to 5 millions euros they spend quarterly ?

At this point in time, this does not look good and it would be fair from you to recognize this rather than try to convince everyone (and fail) that all is OK for them… Not the case… They will have their largest loss ever, they fired 25% of the staff and cash is low and they compete with giants with deep pockets…

Come on Charbax… Another blatant lie everyone can see…

Read this:
http://www.archos.com/corporate/investors/financial_doc/CP_succes_augmentation_capital_2011.pdf

In may 2011 they raised 40 million dollars and the company has been profitable in 2011 with 7 million dollars…

If you read http://www.archos.com/corporate/investors/financial_doc/ARCHOS_CP_RESULTATS_2011-FR.pdf

You will see They ended 2011 and started 2012 with net treasury at more than 30 million dollars (27.5 millions euros).

And in the full report page 25 you can see they owe 25m euros to their vendors and page 41 you can see the stock is at 34 millions (so another 9 millions euros for them).

Total = 27,5m euros in cash + 9 millions euros net in stock

So much for your business understanding…

What is stopping any other company doing what you say Archos will and taking their business? Why aren’t they in a worse position competing with all these $45 Chinese phones when they don’t even have the advantage of a different operating system?

Go away please. iphone cost $100 to make. Apple sells it for $650. Apple are the worst type of mafia crooks in this industry. They suck and if you do not understand that, you suck. So please, go away.

Archos is a tiny small market cap with giant possibilities that are within one or two decisions by either the one or other distributor, the one or other large investor/partner, the one or other French Government or EU projects to invest in technological opportunities, for Archos to overnight be worth just about 100 times more than it is today.

Apple is only one Android phone, Android tablet and Chromebook away from being worth just about 3x less than they are today.

An Archos company worth 70 Million euros that can easily be worth $1 Billion or $10 Billion tomorrow is a much more interesting investment than a $400 Billion company that can only be worth $120 Billion and less tomorrow.

But hey, if you do not understand this, then go away, go away, go waste some other people’s time. Stop being useless here. Bye.

Not true. Archos never had more than 10-15 million dollars to operate.

Come on…

There is a future for companies making a profit Charbax – don’t get it wrong… It is company loosing money that are doomed…

Apple will make probably 40+ billion profit this year… How much for archos ?

On product price look at iSupply for the cost for the parts of an iPhone. It is about 210 dollars… Great parts do cost money… How can you compare with a $50 phone… Also on cost you then need to add all the iOS Engineeing cost, the marketing cost, the transport cost, the various taxes, the commission for the resellers and margin for apple.

Then you also need to add their operating costs for iCloud which is a free service as well as getting iOS software updates for free (they still offer the updates for the 3GS which is 4 year old… You can’t say that for android)

Ultimately they make a Reasonable margin near 30%…

Not true – a yearl ago they had between stock and cash roughy 80 millions to operate. Today they have barely 25… Do you see the problem ?

yea right, $400 Billion for a company that does a piece of electronics, I just saw an iphone copy running Android sold for $45 in Shenzhen, why would anyone pay 10 times more for an Apple device that pretty much does the same. The potential and growth is only for the companies who’s business model is to sell high value products, thus good features for good price, that has always been Archos core business model. Don’t invest in companies which only business model is to sell overpriced under-featured devices, there is no future in that in a world where Android open source free market competition dominate the world.

Must be a great time to invest in Apple as well, then.

Archos has never had more than that kind of amount in the bank. This is business as usual for Archos, and right now Archos has more growth potential products than at any other point in time. From the industry’s first and best hardcore gameplaying device, to the best value latest ipad/nexus beating products to their best ever production quality Gen10 to probably amoung the best value smartphones yet. And Archos has not even started towars the path of the wearable computing and robots where Archos likely is to be the European leader, just by default because near nobody else in Europe is capable. If the Archos stock is low, this is probably the best time since before 2006 to invest in Archos again.

I am sorry to say Charbax that this is not the case… You are right they are used to lose all the money they get from their shareholder – probably 90 millions euros over the past 19 years… The challenge is now there is nowhere to go to raise money – private investors, banks, small shareholders no one trusts archos anymore and a formal capital increase is doomed… They know it so they voted last year – when things were still OK (30 millions in the bank) a financial package (PACEO) that lets them put up to 10% new shares on the market (2,5 millions new shares). Early January, to pay for the layoff plan and save the company from a bad situation they sold 1 million shares for 4 millions euros… But with thé stock plumetting, they cant really get much cash out of the remaining 1,5m and French SEC would probably sue them if they were to do so without a growth plan…

So here they are – Archos is in trouble. Really… Less than 10 million euro in the bank compared to more than 30 last year, probably 15 millions in stock when they were at 50 million last year… And burning 5 to 6 millions a quarter…

They need a products with margin that sell… Finger crossed for them.

Archos never had a lot of cash in the bank. Archos is perfectly fine with not having alot of cash. They can find customers for Gamepads, Titanium, Platinum, Archos Phones, XS series, and those customers can provide as much cash as needed to produce anywhere from good amount to Apple-beating and Nexus-beating amounts. This is business as usual for Archos, they are better positioned than anyone else in the industry in Europe.

BTW – you know that Archos has only roughly 6/7 months of cash left in the bank to run the company, right ? and that they are still operating at a major loss…. so the math is pretty simple…

– they don’t have money to invest
– every month that goes by they will struggle a bit more
– until the last person to leave the office turns off the light…

so now we know charbax don’t like apple and is a secret lover of Mr Crohas… that still does not make him 100% right, but things are getting clearer on who he is…

BTW Tim Cook got 1m shares allocated that he will get only if he stays 10 years at the helm of the company.. it’s not a short term stock allocation.

it’s a long term reward. also Tim Cook was named CEO in August 2011. at that time Apple stock price was around $380. today the stock is at $420 or so – which is 10% higher which translates into 40 billion dollars worth of value creation under his leadership. he also returned to the shareholder some dividend – already 3 payment – roughly 7,5 billion dollars as well of profit for the shareholder and the cash accumulated by the company grew also by 50 billion since…. not that bad and his base salary is 1,1 million euro

Compare to Mr Crohas whose company, under his leadership over the same period:

– wasted $45 millions of capital increase sold to small shareholder at $10 a share. it is now trading at $3,4 a share… a loss of 65% for the investors

– managed to get the stock price form 12€ to 2,6€ à 80% wipe off
– lost his market to samsung and apple
– missed totally the launch of G9 and G10
– has been investigated by the french SEC
– has allocated to himself more than 1 million shares of archos with a one year dead line (compare to 10 years for Tim Cook)
– managed to cash out $13 millions for himself and doubled the rent of the ofice space (which goes to his family owned other company)
– is paying himself for this superb job $350,000 a year…

so now that we have facts – I think I know who I prefer to see as CEO…

I’m am fully correct on the whole list.

Archos is doing perfectly fine, it’s a small company, if they down-size one month or up-size the other, has no bearing on its potential, Archos operates in potential multi-billion dollar industry and France is in need of growth so it’s kind of a given that the French investment banks are going to bank big in Archos, that is what those nationalized banks are to do in France and there is basically only full confidence that Archos is one of the only if not the only consumer electronics company of that type in France or even in Europe. I cannot control the wrong decisions that this or that executive or politician may take. I still expect most OMAP engineers work on further ARM developments at Google, that Archos, can benefit from, so can everyone else in the industry, TI decided to focus on other markets than smartphone/tablet upfront, that is their executive mistake if they really do that. I still don’t believe that they’ll do. Doesn’t change from the fact TI was market leader in performance/sales/value up until mid-2012, OMAP4 is sill the main reference design for Android ICS and JB, and just for some reason OMAP5 is not yet released, that one can also still grab large market shares in Chromebooks, tablets and more. Either way, Archos has to diversify, make Google Glass type devices, make robots, those are likely still best to be TI powered, while for basic tablets Rockchip covers that in Archos market which is 10x better value for money than Apple, Archos can easily continue that for as long as Apple isn’t out of the market. Archos can easily dent Apple and Samsung, it’s only a question of funds, and the funds exist, even in France, even in Europe. The European and French will to destroy Apple is there. And it’s only normal for Henri Crohas to have profited at least a little bit on his company, he hadn’t quite profited from it over decades of simply being a shareholder and not having sold any of his shares all these years. Henri Crohas cashed about 1/1000th what Tim Cook is cashing in on shareholders that are loosing hundreds of Billions of dollars right now.

Hey charbax

You were wrong on archos doing fine financially
You were wrong on archos being able to sell all they manufacture
You were wrong about French president investing in archos
You were wrong on stock price does not matter for archos
You were wrong arguing the June loss is due to credit impot
You were wrong about TI future as a leader
You were wrong about archos being able to dent apple or Samsung or anyone
You are wrong in all your geopolitical analysis and financial analysis

The only time you are in your domain of expertise is when you relate facts as you see them and help us see tradeshows and get the latest news. Thanks for this – keep doing so. This is your stuff and you do it well, with enthusiasm.

So stick to this… Don’t venture on something you don’t understand. You don’t like apple, fine we get it. You love archos, you are a big fan of Mr Crohas ok we get it… do you know he has been profiting personally (he cashed in more than $13m in 2011 after touting at RITZ his company was doing well and G9 will blow everyone off… He has taken the money of little shareholder times and again… For his personal wealth like auto attributing himself lots of free stock, increasing the rent of his office space while being the owner of the premises and thus benefiting, etc… )

When archos will be chapter 11 later this year (probably August 2013) you will be thankful I avoided you the shame of promising the impossible.

Just stick to technology – with ethics … You can do that well…

“I have always been right. You can look back at all my posts since 2000, everything I say comes true. AAPL stock value will be halved within 6-12 months, reply here by then and tell me I was right.” — Charbax, 13 months ago, when AAPL was at $450 http://www.asymco.com/2012/01/31/pricing-paradox/#comment-427834705

Wrong then, not 100% correct in what you write online I would wager, by a long shot.

I have always been proven 100% correct in everything I write online.

Samsung is cutting Apple off, that is why Apple is being told to go find another foundry, Apple is being told to go find screens elsewhere and to go find RAM elsewhere. Apple cannot find alternative suppliers, ergo Apple knows they are dead.

The USA represents less than 5% of the world population, and shrinking. The Smartphone market is growing everywhere except in the USA. So it is quite simple, if the stupid and bogus US court system wants to make Android non-free or ban Android in the USA, it’s very simple, all Android makers and suppliers are going to fully destroy everything that has to do with propritary US based platforms like iOS and Windows, and Apple and Microsoft will overnight be totally dead. The fact is the US market will then have zero new technology brought into that country. The USA will be like Cuba for cars, you will not be able to find new smartphones nor tablets in the USA, exports from all other countries to the USA are going to get banned.
The rest of the world can care less about the US market. China and India alone can easily absorb the volume of revenue and profits coming from the USA, China and India can absorb that in just about a year’s time, peanuts. Nobody cares about the USA anymore.

China is going to kill off Apple also, quite simply because China can use all the same manufacturing and assembly to make Chinese branded smartphones and tablets, China has zero interest in exporting all their profits to Apple’s off-shore carribean bank accounts for Apple to pay no taxes neither in China nor in the USA, nor anywhere else. China has zero interest in continuing to be Apple’s slave. China can easily decide to ban and block all Apple product manufacturing worldwide from one day to the next. Apple should just try to sue Huawei or ZTE for one or other bogus rectangle patent infringement, and just wait and see how many seconds it would then take China to order that all Apple products manufacturing be stopped definitely and all manufacturing contracts fully cancelled. With all manufacturing capacity be used for Chinese brands where the profits can stay in China and where factory workers can be paid a larger share of the consumer electronics revenue and profit.

Charbax – you are so naive in your financial or geopolitical analysis…

Let’s assume you are right. Why on earth Samsung did not kill apple yet then ? why do they keep building factories (including a massive investment for the A6 factory in Texas) just for Apple ? Don’t you see a conflict between your statement and the world as it is and works ?

Samsung cannot rely on its inner market to strive. South Korea needs US support. Samsung needs to be a global company. If they don’t play by US market and ITC rules they will be trashed. The risk is pretty high actually, Tim cook is close to Obama,,,

It’s a power game.

And if you look at china – apple is well supported and encouraged by the government for helping create a middle class so that china does not need to rely so much on being the world’s factory to have a future. Chinese govt has called Apple to open more factories inland to help revitalize some regions. Limiting the people movements to the coast which is what is creating the real estate boom and risk. China needs investors in those region and apple is a great partner for this.

Again – time will prove what you are writing is just false.

Are these fantasies erotic for you or have you transcended the needs of the flesh and become pure energy?

You are completely useless. Go someplace else, and stop wasting my time.
fosspatents is specifically and proven to be paid by MICROSOFT and ORACLE, and probably also by APPLE to constantly “blog” against Google in every single possible aspect. fosspatents has ZERO integrity and is worth ZERO trust by anyone with just a little knowledge of journalism in this market.
Samsung can care less about supplying any more components to Apple. Samsung’s the one telling Apple to get lost, and go find some foundry and component supplier someplace else. Samsung’s stock means pretty much nothing, most of Samsung is held privately within South Korea, they have no obligations towards any public shareholder anywhere in the world. Apple is the desperate one. Samsung can easily use their own supply under their own brand and make 10x more profit per component than to have to supply Apple. Samsung is happy to make Apple die. In fact not just Samsung, everyone in Asia is only happy to see Apple be destroyed, which is what is happening. Within months or years if Apple continues their pathetic attack against free open source Android, Apple will be cut off from all consumer electronics supply from Asia, basically Apple will be dead, Apple stores will have zero products to sell and Apple shareholders will all go bankrupt.

LOL… You are just a clown. So funny. I like your humor…

Fosspatent is well informed and its author sits in courts and tracks what happens as much as you track what happens in the ARM space or Archos space. It’s a trusted and robust source of information and market analysis,

Regarding Samsung, why do you think they have published this in last May?

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2012/05/17/sasmung-launches-dram-chips-early/

They are scared to death loosing apple as a customer. Their stock price tanked $10 billion when a rumor apple was shifting a tiny bit of production elsewhere and Samsung management had to issue a press release.. You have no clue whatsoever on financial nor legal matters Charbax. Why don’t you stay focused on technology ?

And on archos – think twice before you make claims… Reading through that blog discussion shows how wrong you have been so far on archos fate over the past few months. Don’t you think you owe some truth to your readership rather that blatantly distorting reality and facts in a way everyone can see?

fosspatents is a fake site setup by a paid anti-Google blogger, stop linking to that BS site on here, fosspatents articles are all 100% false, made up BS that needs no promotion on the web.

Samsung does not need Apple’s money, in fact Apple does not pay much more than cost price for Samsung’s components, thus Samsung can easily stop supplying to Apple and use all that capacity for their own brand or to any other Android brand. Contracts are easily invalidated by Samsung through South Korean law. Apple is the totally desperate one. Without Samsung, Apple has nothing and is bankrupt nearly overnight. Without Samsung, LG, without Asian suppliers and assembly, Apple is completely dead.

stop posting about fosspatents, everything fosspatents writes is fake and BS made up. Samsung has to pay $0 to Apple. All the BS reports are nothing other than BS. A bogus court in Cupertino has ZERO say in the validity of Apple’s totally bogus patents. Apple’s patents are all totally worthless worldwide. Apple never invented anything. In fact Archos invented most of Apple’s technologies, so if anyone deserves to get paid $1 Billion for bogus infringement, it’s got to be Archos who gets $1 Billion from Apple.

the news is in – Samsung has to pay $600 millions to Apple. this is the Judge final decision. and there might be more to come.

Based on today’s order, Apple is entitled to the sum of

$598,908,892 ($598.9 million) (the part of the jury’s damages award that stands),

whatever a new jury is going to determine as the appropriate damages figure with respect to the 14 Samsung products listed further above,

prejudgment interest at the 52-week Treasury bill rate, and

supplemental damages (for the period between the verdict and the final judgment) based on actual sales figures.

That sum could be less than $1 billion, but it could also be more.

sure charbax.. it is true Samsung did not pay a dime yet to Apple. so far…

the judge said that Samsung did not willfully infringe Apple IP but The court also disagreed with Samsung’s assertion that the trial was manifestly unfair…

you can read on this here: http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/01/judge-overrules-jury-finds-samsungs.html

regarding news from the legal side, read this, this is pretty fresh:

German court stays Samsung’s voiceover patent lawsuit against Apple: patent likely invalid
http://www.fosspatents.com/2013/02/german-court-stays-samsungs-voiceover.html

Japan court rejects Samsung claim against Apple
http://www.zdnet.com/japan-court-rejects-samsung-claim-against-apple-7000011994/

regarding Samsung supply to Apple… they just can’t withdraw… they need the money for their factories and have long term contracts.. and Apple is building capacity for when the contract expires with other suppliers and Samsung has to find ways to replace Apple as a customer… Billions of dollars of orders that Samsung will loose..

The court of Cupertino said one thing, but that has no value in neither real US law nor international law. Samsung has not paid Apple $1. All the other courts all over the world invalidate all of Apple’s completely bogus patents. What is funny is that Samsung and LG are soon blocking all component sales to Apple and Apple will be completely dead, the Apple stock is going to crash much faster much further.

Sure… The jury in the US which awarded them 1 billion dollar against samsung agrees with you…

Even if you think they don’t innovate – They spent billions of dollars in recent years buying patents… So they have tons of valid patents…

But I don’t care about apple,,, I’m more a google guy… And I play the stock market and apple made me wealthy and google richer… I own both stocks, and I had some Samsung too for a while..

Apple has 0 valid patents, Apple is a joke of a company. You just go ahead about invest all your money in Apple stock and loose it all, have fun with that.

Sure they do… With 3,5 millions euro of R&D… You are a joke. You have no understanding for finance – stick to technology.

We’ll wait mid march for the results of 2012 which will show massive loss, cash super low and then in April their Q1 which will be poor because they have no cash for production and Q2 will be terrible… And we will see that in July.

Let’s keep track if what is happening…and we can compare your statements and reality..

(BTW apple has patents in home automation, just released a patent for a wearable device , heard about iWatch rumors?)

I’m not going to read your crap. Just go away, fake dupont. Apple is the one in trouble. Apple shareholders are loosing HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of DOLLARS. Archos is just spending a bit to invest into new areas such as portable gaming, robots, affordable smartphones, probably also wearable computing, home automation, larger tablets, ARM Powered laptops and many other new categories. Apple has nothing in any of those, all Apple has is the potential to loose hundreds of billions of dollars in valuation and in profits, as the iphone scam is nearly over. Archos is just starting. Apple is crashing down, and you’re a complete ignorant of the world.

WHAT A LIE!!!!

ACCORDING TO CHARBAX ONDA IS THE DISTRIBUTOR OF ARCHOS PRODUCTS IN CHINA… COME ON!!!

ONDA IS THE MANUFACTURER OF THOSE PRODUCTS. ARCHOS IS PURCHASING THEIR LATEST GENERATION FROM ONDA AND BRINGING THOSE TO THE MARKET WORLDWIDE UNDER ITS BRAND.

WHO CAN TRUST YOU AFTER THAT? YOU ARE SUCH A FANBOY OF ARCHOS THAT YOU ARE LYING TO YOUR READERS AS YOU CAN’T ACCEPT OR FACE THEIR FAILURE….

NUMBERS ARE IN. WAKE UP. WHAT WILL BE YOUR EXCUSE WHEN THEY GO CHAPTER 11? THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW?

Chabax – you invest what you can invest. if you have $10k to invest, this is what you invest… if you have 50 millions this is what you invest… but if you had put 50 millions into Archos, you would still have lost more in $$ than if you had invested that into Apple.. Yes you would have had more shares and more %age of the company… (and you pay your bills in $/€/£, not with %age of ownership of a company..

it’s not about how much of the company you won (which is linked to valuation and valuation is connected to profitability, assets, revenue and growth prospects). I suggest you investigate the PER concept (Price Earning Ratio) that is (simply put) how many years of profit of a company you would need to get your money back if you had bought the full company. Apple PER (not counting cash which would make it even more attractive) is 10. You would need 10 year of operation to reimburse the full purchase of the company. Microsoft is 15. Google is 32 and Amazon is like 3000… it is not possible to calculate Archos PER as they are not profitable. even looking at last year when they had 5m euro profit, for a valuation of 80m as they have today that would mean 16 year of profits to pay back… (of course not relevant, over the past 10 year Archos has been barely profitable twice and the cumulated loss are roughly 80 to 90 millions eurors)

by all metric Apple is actually very cheap at the moment in the market and this is because Wall Street wants to influence what they do with their massive war chest (130 billions in cash) and also because there have been some pressure on the margins of the company and thus a question mark on whether they will be able to continue to deliver reasonable margins in the future. That the future will tell…

long story short. Archos is in trouble, their cash flow has been tremendously negative in 2012, they have barely 6 months worth of cash in front of them, had to raise 4 millions euros on the stock market again in January to not go under… Archos is transitioning business model from a engineering company to a commercial company. those are facts… and you can argue as much as you want about it… the financial results are coming in in March and all will be written in there…

l’insulte est l’ultime argument des faibles. vous avez perdu Charbax. 100% raison à JJ ou Franck.

Insult is the last argument of weak minds. You lost Charbax. JJ and Franck are totally right.

You suck at understanding the world. $10’000 invested in Archos buys you as many shares as $50 Million invested in Apple. Had you invested $10K in Archos you’d have invested $50 Million in Apple for the same % share in the company. Since January 1st you’d have lost over $10 Million in your Apple shares while you’ve barely lost $2K in Archos shares, again, for owning the same % of each company.

You people are just sad and ridiculous, you have zero understanding of the value of money. You walk around not caring and not noticing how Billions of dollars are being lost by investors in Apple and how that is insane, for a company with a semi-fruit as logo and all they do is a little piece of electronic. You people have zero understanding of the value of consumer electronics companies. Just go away, go waste other people’s time. I don’t have time for you pathetic small minds.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Onda is not for sale in Europe and the USA. Archos is providing one of the best values for RK3066 and Allwinner A31 in Europe and the USA which are 2 of the best value Chinese ARM Processor platforms at the moment. You have zero idea what you are talking about. Onda is the brand that is allowed to sell those Archos products in China. None other. It means nothing what gets tested by FCC, FCC needs to test devices before they get released and FCC does not care if the logo is the final one once it gets sold.

Sorry Charbax – the archos community as expressed in many articles has been shocked that the new sexy tablets are rebranded Onda’s tablets. archos (or arnova) in the past used to design the tablets and outsource production. The engineer mind was archos. Now nothing in there is their work – they are trying to sell someone else work. This is commerce, not innovation anymore… And as a fan I’ve been highly disappointed (especially as it is easy to see the markup they add whereas if you buy from Onda – even with tax, freight and duties you get a better product at a cheaper price…. Shame on them.

If you had invested $10,000 in Nokia, Apple or Archos – how much would you have now in your pocket?

That is the way every shareholder is looking at it… YOU suck at finance,,,

You suck at math. Nokia shareholders lost $1 Billion since January 1st. Apple shareholders lost $150 Billion since January 1st. Archos shareholders lost peanuts since January 1st. You have zero understanding of the market. Sourcing Chinese technology is what everyone in this market does, Archos is the best at it in Europe, probably also one of the best in the world. Go play with something else. Stop wasting my time.

well… let’s look at facts… once again they prove you wrong…

Nokia has lost 8% since January 1st
Apple has lost 17% since January 1st
Archos has lost 20% since January 1st

if Archos is sourcing Chinese technology, why do you think they are innovative? what you say is that they are actually just marketing the work from other?

Regarding Onda, look at this as you speak french

http://www.minimachines.net/actu/la-archos-80-platinum-une-tablette-onda-rebadgee-4438

image from FCC, shows that the tablet Archos is getting through approval under its brand has the Onda logo and you can see all you want to know about them on their web site http://www.onda-tablet.com for the marketing arm and http://onda.cn for the real origin (if you speak chinese)

Archos has always sourced Chinese technology, that is how Archos has been working for 10 years. Archos is the best at it. Onda is just another brand, Onda is not the manufacturer. The FCC reveals nothing. Archos is the only innovative company of this type left in Europe. Nokia is the one that is going in the total wrong direction, Nokia shareholders are loosing as much money every 6 hours as Archos may have lost in a year. Apple shareholders are loosing as much money every half hour as Archos have lost in a year. You people have zero understand of this market. Just go ahead and judge based on what some short term ignorant shareholders think one day or the next. Next week Archos stock goes up as much as it may have gone down this week, it’s a small cap and it’s stock value has no meaning for neither the health or the growth potential of the company.

The nice thing about fans is that they can’t think straight. -16% on th estock market today for archos. Cash is running low. Their G9 and G10 failed to attract customers and now they can’t even engineer their own products anymore and are slapping their brand onto Onda’s tablets (as FCC revealed). Sorry for you dude – you know the journey is the reward and you will be able to find another gat company to be enthusiastic about. It’s just a matter of time now…

Archos has plenty of growth potential, Archos Gamepad, Titanium, Platinum, G10 series, Archos Phones, all points to growth. They just didn’t convince a few retailers with last gen, especially in the USA, means nothing in terms of Archos potential for growth. Archos can easily become the biggest of this types of CE making companies in Europe.

here we go… we have now the results of “All the retailers are queuing up to make big orders from Archos”… the company is being trashed by the competition – from their own words they admit that iPad and other competitors ate their lunch… challenging time for Archos

I suggest you read the FY11 report page 14

http://www.archos.com/corporate/investors/financial_doc/Rapport_financier_2011.pdf

199 employees at the start of the year and they probably added a few during the first months and are now laying off 25% of them.

Archos never published any number of devices sold and its clearly not many millions given their total revenue of 150 millions for the year…

Anyway – that is not the point – they are unfortunately failing big way… Probably lost $40 millions of dollars in 2012…

I’ll come back in Q2… But you can clearly see the trend since Q2 2102… It has just been downwards death spiral. Sorry you can’t see that…

Archos has 100 employees and I’m talking number of devices sold not scammy overpriced revenue. Apple has been way way overpriced for years and that is why the Apple stock is crashing down where it deserves to be.

Charbax… why do you lie on things that are so easily verifiable…

Apple $54.5 billion for Q4. 80,000 employees = $681k per head
Archos $65 millions for Q4. 199 employees = $326k per head

numbers taken in legal reporting from the companies.

even assuming archos had already fired the 25% planned for Q4 that is still $433k per head at archos…

so not Only Archos does not sell 100x more than Apple if I calculate sales per employee but Apple sell twice as much…

and of course they don’t sell million of devices….

Yea right, selling millions of devices for a hundred employee company, how terrible! Archos is selling 100x more than Apple if you calculate the sales per employee ratio.

The results are in. Q4 has been just like Q3, just like Q2… terrible. The CFO is announcing more loss. Archos is going down in 2013… sorry…

Stop posting the same thing all the time. The original messages are there. Archos is a riny small company, them having to let go 25% of staff is like Google having to let go 0.05% of their staff. The numbers are absolutely insignificant
Of course its terrible for the people who may be fired. But I do not believe this happrns overnight and there is ample enough time for this decision to be overturned by hugely successful Q4 coming up also there is no reason the French Government isn’t going to decide to invest sooner in Archos so soon enough you’ll read stories of them hiring 250% more employees instead of them firing 25%, and most Archos employees maybe 90% are to remain engineers and they are world class best engineers in the world, they can easily challenge any enigneers from google, asus, samsung, apple anyday.

Really bad time for archos, they will go chapter 11 within 6 month, may be earlier,
0 •Reply•Share ›

Charbax Mod DuPont88 • 5 hours ago −
Archos sales force is 4 peoplr. They are not firing 25%, one of the guys is moving to new zealand or something. Archos has zero problems selling their devices, the worldwide demand is huge. Archos has always been a company where 90% of the employees are among the worlds best engineers. This is just normal reassuring instutional investors talk.

Re-organizing is normal, there are institutional investors that demand it. The French Government should come in and invest in Archos so that Archos can become the worlds biggest consumer electronics company, that’d be good for the Paris region. But if they don’t, Archos simply continues being a company that is mainly focused on R&D and to the rate that they can afford to do it, maybe 90% of Archos is R&D engineers, real inventors and innovators, and that tries to limit expenses in all other areas of the company.

——-

DuPont88 • 5 hours ago −
@charbax –> Archos is doing SO well and has so much cash and so much “no problem to sell” that they just announced they are firing 25% or the sales force and Mr Crohas seems put to the side focusing on R&D,,,, indeed why keep so many employees when the products sell so well,,,

Really bad time for archos, they will go chapter 11 within 6 month, may be earlier,
0 •Reply•Share ›

Charbax Mod DuPont88 • 5 hours ago −
Archos sales force is 4 peoplr. They are not firing 25%, one of the guys is moving to new zealand or something. Archos has zero problems selling their devices, the worldwide demand is huge. Archos has always been a company where 90% of the employees are among the worlds best engineers. This is just normal reassuring instutional investors talk.
——–

May be you need to read the following press release from the company…

http://www.archos.com/corporate/investors/financial_doc/ARCHOS_-_Plan_de_reorganisation_nov2012.pdf

There are just some facts you can’t lie about…

Archos sales force is 4 peoplr. They are not firing 25%, one of the guys is moving to new zealand or something. Archos has zero problems selling their devices, the worldwide demand is huge. Archos has always been a company where 90% of the employees are among the worlds best engineers. This is just normal reassuring instutional investors talk.

Really bad time for archos, they will go chapter 11 within 6 month, may be earlier,

Well either archos sales rep are not good or Q4 will be huge then…

Because if big retailers are queuing up as you say for a product that will sell millions with a 30% margin then it should be no pb for the retailers to fork up the cash to fund production… or with a firm order from best buy, fnac or best buy archos can go see any bank and get the money (afacturage) for a small fee..

So will see at the end of the last quarter what will have been the reality.. Rendezvous en février…

All the retailers are queuing up to make big orders from Archos, I saw them all pushing and waiting at the Archos booth at the hong kong fair. Possibly never have I seen so many people at an Archos booth. The question only is if Archos finds a way to have someone else invest in expanding manufacturing capacity. Archos probably doesn’t want to borrow the money, it has to be investments by others in their manufacturing. Margins for resellers on sellong Archos devices are always excellent. Resellera make up to 30% margin selling Archos, which is better for them than selling Nexus7, Windows surface or apple.

Why do you think none of the big retailers you listed place such an order…? because they think it won’t sell probably or it does not carry enough margin… So archios does have a selling problem…

Also if you read their Q3 report they are saying remaining stock is a worry.

Absolutely not. Archos has zero problems selling their tablets, they’ve had zero problems since 2001. Archos scale is a 100-employee company, they can’t manipulate volumes per quarter as some giant corporations can by having huge cash reserves and moving products around. Archos does not care about Q3, they have too many new devices to launch now in Q4, including the Gamepad which Archos easily can sell 1 million of during just this quarter, if only they get investments necessary to crank up manufacturing capacity significantly, if a bet buy or fnac or media markt, or all of these, make such big orders with cash upfront signed document, Archos can easily sell more in Q4 than the whole previous 7 months combined.

hum – they had 47m euros worth of stock at the end of the June and set aside 11 millions euros to help sell this out in major bargains… looks like they managed to only get rid of 30 millions worth of it…. so not sure they can sell as much as what they want… someone still needs to be interested in buying.. it’s not just a production challenge they face…