Sorry but this is false, manufactures are the ones who have to do the R&D.  Again, Google is a software company and not a hardware company.  Even the Motorola acquisition won’t change that much and the alliance is just an alliance.  R&D costs are still mostly covered by each company, and simply sharing information won’t change that, especially for those who are using their own custom SoC design instead of buying the chip off another manufacturer.

For netbooks, Intel does the bulk of R&D and most companies just have to pick parts.  So R&D for them is typically nothing compared to what ARM typically goes through.

Also again R&D is only one of many other hidden costs of doing business
that you’re ignoring. These companies have to work harder at marketing, setting up productions, etc than many netbook makers.

All of which are some of the reasons why ARM is typically sold with profit margins more congruent with what the rest of the market normally charges versus the netbook market.  So despite a parts cost saving they still won’t automatically be cheaper than a equivalent netbook.

Really, stop clinging to just the parts costs.  There’s lots more to factor for pricing and until you do you won’t be getting realistic estimates of what they will finally be charging consumers.

And again, it won’t change everything.  It’ll make things better but that’s not the same as full native support.

So long as they use proprietary hardware and closed drivers they will always have fragmentation to deal with!

Really, just stop with either/or nonsense you keep on trying to argue.  Just because it’s not a cure all doesn’t mean it’s bad and just because they still have problems doesn’t mean they’ve failed.

There is only so much they can do, even with an alliance, and you just need to scale down your expectations and stop trying to sell the changes as miracle cures.

There are no other expenses, that what Google and the Open Handset Alliance are for. All R&D is done in collaboration, they instead spend their money to differentiate on mass manufacturing all the different possibilities of hardware. R&D and distribution is a very small % of the cost.

Again, this is false.  It cost them a minimum just for the parts but the parts cost is not the only consideration for pricing and that’s where you’re making your mistake.  Until you factor everything then you’re not going to be making realistic estimates for final consumer pricing.

You can continue all you want. The manufacturers selling netbooks for $299 today can easily sell ARM Chromebooks for $199 tomorrow. Making exactly the same profit per sale of ARM Chromebook as they currently do on the Netbook. Since the ARM Chromebook at $199 is MUCH MORE attractive to ALL CONSUMERS than a $299 Netbook, all the manufacturers can very quickly only want to sell ARM Chromebooks and that will be the end of the Intel era. That is all that there is to this story. Intel is finished.

That is why all the major Laptop manufacturers, Acer, Samsung, Dell, Asus, Toshiba, Sony, they are ALL just now getting ready to unleash huge amounts of ARM Laptops all over the whole market. They know Intel is finished.

Again, Open Handset Alliance, is a hardware/software alliance, they exchange knowledge, they give each other access to development, they collaborate. Google bought Motorola not just for patents, they will go to each of the Motorola employees and see who can serve the Open Handset Alliance for Google, they will try to create more and better open source hardware. They will ask the Motorola Atrix team to turn that concept into an open source concept that every company in the Open Handset Alliance and in open source can use. They will take the Motorola Droid keyboard designers and Motorola UI designers and see how those can serve the open Android ecosystem. They will ask Motorola processor experts to help Google optimize Android for every other platform. They will dedicate large amounts of Motorola engineers at making future reference designs and those will be fully shared with everyone in the open handset alliance. The parts of Motorola that Google cannot integrate into the open source philosophy of Android, into the industry wide ecosystem advancement, then Google will probably spin that off and re-sell that part of Motorola as a separate hardware manufacturer that can either be sold back to new share holders or simply be sold to Samsung, HTC or one of the other hardware manufacturers now. With the cash and tax deductions already available at Motorola, if they consider paying about $2 Billion for the Motorola patents, Google can still take about 2000 Motorola engineers over to work on open source hardware and software with the Android team, and the remaining 17 thousand Motorola employees and that hardware company can be sold back at $6 Billion in a few months to Samsung or whoever else and Google would have lost no money in there.

Regular laptops are also starting to use gorilla glass these days, at least the more premium models. While the cost of gorilla glass has gone down as so many now use it. Besides it’s more than just the cost of keyboard separating them.  Larger screens will cost more as well, along with other added parts and functionality that you don’t need in a tablet but do need in a laptop design.

Amazon’s KF is just 7″ in comparison and has virtually nothing but a good screen and a good processor going for it.  Chromebooks start right now at 11.6″ to 12.1″.  Meaning more mass, more parts, more cost!

You really should stop thinking in only terms of parts costs anyway as already repeatedly pointed out.

A plastic keyboard and mouse pad of a laptop is much cheaper to manufacture than a high-end gorilla glass capacitive touch screen device. Amazon Fire costs around $150 to manufacture in large quantity for Amazon, they can make a 10.1″ Laptop version with the same ARM performance with no touch screen for $100.

Sigh… doesn’t change anything Charbax. 

Besides, I never said Android won’t dominate the industry, I’m just pointing out you’re wrong about them being obligated to support all hardware when they’re a software company and not hardware designers!  They can only do so much and everything else has to be handled by the manufacturers.

Even with the acquisition of Motorola won’t change this much and many still question Google’s ability to run a hardware company as well.  While Motorola has cycled between success and failure over the years.  So the future isn’t as certain as you’re trying to make it out to be yet.

So again, ICS is a step in a right direction but it’s not a cure all!

No, Chromebooks cost more because they use more premium parts than netbooks usually use.  Most of which won’t change by switching to ARM unless they lower build quality and cut corners. 

While Acer is more like Archos, they cater to the low to mid-range and not the high end like Samsung does.

So sorry but there’s more to it then you’re suggesting and you can’t ignore the facts.  If they can’t make even something like the Amazon KF cheaper than $200, using a smaller cheaper design than a Chromebook would be based on, then they’re definitely not going to be making a Chromebook that cheap unless it’s a very low end offering.

The only reason Chromebooks are more expensive is because Acer and Samsung want to keep more money to themselves, nothing else. There are no other factors that determine pricing. Either they want to make a lot of profit or they are ok making a little profit. ARM is cheaper, better, faster, lasts longer on a same battery, is more durable, more scalable, much more mass produced, ARM is much much much better. That is all there is to it.

Google just has about 13 ARM chip providers that they provide full Ice Cream Sandwich real-time support for. 4 major ones like they already have for Gingerbread, add to that about 9 growing alternatives at full speed. This is all there is to it. Google has 44 thousand employees including Motorola, they just need the engineers required to optimize latest Android on each of those. That is the key for Android dominating the industry.

Sorry but this is misleading, you’re ignoring the additional hidden costs that make anything approaching half price being possible only with combining benefits of ARM with making cuts in what is produced.

Amazon KF and Genesi netbook already show what are the present extreme limits of what they can do and those are reality, not conjecture!

Again, you’re confusing basic parts costs and ignoring all the other factors that determine pricing.

Besides, Chromebooks cost more than netbooks for a reason!  Obviously the savings of going with a free OS aren’t making up for the difference in other costs that still raise the cost of present Chromebooks above netbooks with Windows.

While you ignored the fact netbook hardware can more easily get away with reduced profit margins than ARM because they don’t need to constantly support R&D for every new system and can use common off the self parts.

Never mind to get present Chromebook N550/N570 CPU performance they need to use next gen ARM processors and those cost more than $10!!!  Otherwise they have to go with a lower end chip offerings.

Being able to make something cheaper doesn’t mean they can make it as good!

So again shows they have to cut corners to get the price that low.

“Obviously” is the point, working together doesn’t change the hardware fragmentation.  Google would have to make a very bloated version of Android, or resort to less efficient generic drivers, to fully support all hardware it could possibly run on.

Never mind they can’t change closed drivers, as those must be altered by the company that created them even with those companies working with Google.  Also don’t confuse future support with legacy support.

Again, like I already said, ICS is a step in the right direction but it only really helps address fragmentation caused by the OS and companies will just not have to deal as much with those fragmentation issues but the other fragmentation issues remain and it’ll take more than just working together to fix those.

The ARM Powered Laptop can be manufactured and sold for nearly half the price of an Intel Atom Netbook.
Intel Netbook can be manufactured for $175
ARM PCB -$10
Processor -$10
Flash Chromebook vs 250GB Netbook hard drive -$25
Linux vs Windows license -$30
= ARM Laptop can be manufactured for $100

Go read up on http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/ Google gets 100% full access to low level development on all current and upcoming ARM Processors, they get that access and in exchange those chip makers get 100% full access ith a access card to the Google campus any day they want, they video-conference every day. They travel to each others headquarters, they send engineers back and forward.

http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html they are all there, or not yet, I think they update the website slower than they add more members, also, they start working together months before that gets announced on the website.

All the handset, tablet, laptop, set-top-box, e-reader makers, all want the latest Android automatically, obviously they want that. Google is automating low level kernel updates, driver updates, all that through the Google Marketplace. That means all Android devices with Android 4.0 support will forever get all future Android versions beamed directly over the Google Marketplace, sometimes needing a reboot to apply changes, but not always, it’s a new way to think of firmware updates, Google beams them out.

Obviously that does not mean Google is the only one doing all the work and that does not mean all updates will come to all devices at the same time, but the idea is to make updates simpler and faster.

Sorry but generally you do mostly get what you pay for!  Lower cost tablets cost less because they give you less!

Even Amazon’s KF, which is basically based on the RIM PB, strips out virtually everything but the screen and processor.  It has no bluetooth, no GPS, no G-Sensor, no ports except the one mini USB, only 8GB of internal capacity, and not even volume buttons are included. 

All of which is for a small 7″ form factor, but a larger Chromebook will cost more to make.

Amazon may not be losing anything on the parts cost but the profit margin they’re getting is too small to make it economical for any other company that isn’t getting alternate revenue from matching that pricing without cutting more corners on the design.

Besides, you’re confusing just the parts cost with how much they can price these things Charbax.  Companies not only have to cover part costs but the cost of production, shipping, and marketing.  While still gaining enough profit to make it worth all the effort.

Unless production runs are very large then they have little choice but to increase the profit margin to make up the difference, as they also have to recover from the loss of R&D along with all the other hidden costs of getting the product to market.

ARM also won’t reduce the pricing that much from ATOM systems.  ATOM is subsidized by the industry, using common off the self parts that’s cheaper than constantly making custom designs.  This is also partly why they can sell them with less profit as they don’t have to make up as much R&D costs, along with the other hidden costs of bringing new products to market.

Again, it’s not just about parts cost…

Yes, ARM can use less power and cost less to make but it doesn’t change all the other parts of the system.  A 11.6″ screen will still cost as much on a ARM system as it does on a x86 system for example.

The cost difference is also not as large as it use to be with Cedar Trail, chip costs are down to $42 per unit and power efficiency has also gone up to reduce power needs to lessen the gap as well.  ARM still has the clear advantage, even going top of the line next Gen, but it’s not the only price consideration of a system.

Lowest Chromebook from Acer is priced about $349…  Switch it to ARM, put in a smaller battery and you maybe save $50-$80, which still puts you well above $200.  They’ll have to save $150 worth to get the price down to $199 and that means using even cheaper hardware and not just switching to ARM.

Remember, Chromebook makers are not Google, manufacturers have to make their own profits and few can rely on alternative revenue sources.

While we already got companies like Genesi to show what’s possible at $200 price point and they cut a lot of corners to get to that point.

Google can only address fragmentation on its end.  They don’t control the hardware for all companies and can’t directly develop for proprietary hardware with closed drivers. At best they can only directly address whatever hardware falls under their own patent library, which may be large but doesn’t encompass all hardware used by all companies.

So ICS will make things better, but all ICS can do is lessen the fragmentation issues to just those caused by manufacturers.  ICS is not going to be a cure all, just a step in the right direction.

Google doesn’t provide Android out of box with all the drivers and customized code for every piece of hardware it could be possibly be installed on.  Android is a light weight OS and the only way it can remain light weight is to let each manufacturer make the alterations needed for their specific hardware themselves.  Otherwise it’ll become large and bloated like many desktop OS. So Google can only support the common basic ARM specification part of the hardware, and they’ll be limited to emulations of most proprietary hardware anyway and that’s never 100%.

Besides, even if ICS somehow can run on all hardware as is doesn’t mean it’ll run well on all hardware and each manufacturer is responsible for its own hardware!

ICS will just solves things like native support for all screen sizes and resolutions, along with other things that just the OS are responsible for supporting… 

It’s also not just FUD that many companies are worried about Google/Motorola.  There is a difference from being worried and panicking, but they would be foolish if they weren’t at least concerned as this is the first time Google has had an invested interest in the hardware of any one company and it’s foolish to think Google won’t take advantage of this even a little bit!  Google want Motorola to succeed after all, and this is a very competitive market.

All Google has to do is let their programmers talk with Motorola’s programmers and engineers and you got an automatic advantage.  At the very least they can get the hardware optimized for the new OS release faster than the others and eliminate the grace period normally needed to customize and optimize a new OS release for their specific hardware.

Since Google/Motorola now don’t have to worry about any patents or closed drivers between them like all the other companies still do.  So Google/Motorola would have to mess up not to benefit from this merger.

You would have to also ignore all the talk of many of these companies starting to invest in alternate OS options to think they aren’t at least a little concerned!

Really, we’re talking about business here.  The only loyalty they have to each other is towards mutual profit potential, but they’re all in it for themselves and another reason they customize is to try and leverage a advantage for themselves.  All of which won’t change just because Google releases ICS.

Google improves this with Ice Cream Sandwich. Now all ARM Processor makers will get full support from Google, all devices can have Android 4.0 and once they have that, the devices will get full Android updates directly through the Google Marketplace, automatically, the so-called fragmentation is finished. All low level hardware software optimizations will be distributed through the Google Marketplace and all devices get free unlimited Google Marketplace. Google was not ready to offer that broad a software and hardware optimizations support with Gingerbread and previous, but they can do it now. That is what Google has been working on the past year.

Nobody is afraid of Google and Motorola. That is just FUD. Samsung, HTC, LG, Dell, Acer, Asus, Sony-Ericsson etc they all love Android 100% and they fully trust Google and they know Google is buying Motorola to destroy Apple and Microsoft in those bogus patent lawsuits, totally bogus. The Motorola hardware division might be sold back unless Google can find a way to use most of those hardware engineers to develop open source hardware, basically advance the global Android hardware design ecosystem, design better reference designs and exactly that, dedicate ex-Motorola engineers into working to optimize Android for each of the ARM Processor platforms and optimize them further for each hardware.

ARM Powered Tablets cost anywhere from $50 to $200 to manufacture. It’s up to the brands how much profit they want to make. Amazon does not loose money on Fire, but they have plans to profit on content later. The Amazon Fire does not use the cheapest screen and processor either. $199 ARM Powered Chromebooks is very much a possibility, it costs $125 to manufacture a super fast latest ARM Cortex-A9 1.5Ghz ARM Powered Chromebook, so at $199 all the manufacturers currently selling Netbooks can sell ARM Powered Chromebooks at $199 and not make any less profit on that then they currently make on the Intel based Netbook. Google can also share advertising revenue with the manufacturer, that amounts to about $40 to $100 over the 2 years of use, that could be part of the business model, then some manufacturer can even decide to sell ARM Powered Chromebooks at $99 and not loose money.

Sorry but it simply doesn’t work that way.  It doesn’t matter how many people work for Google, they don’t control all the hardware or the drivers for those devices.

While the Motorola staff can only help Google with Motorola Hardware!  They don’t have access to the proprietary hardware of the other companies either!

In fact, the reason some companies are starting to invest in alternative operating systems besides Android is because they’re afraid Google will give Motorola products an unfair advantage.

While there are reasons why it can take months before a company pushes out a new Android release well after it’s official release.  Google was never set up to fully support all the possible hardware combinations ARM allows natively themselves.  So they only support the basics and provide the tools for all the companies to customize and optimize as needed.

This is also why even identical hardware systems can still perform quite differently depending on how the manufacturer was able to optimize the OS, which wouldn’t be the case if Google had already done so.

Besides, the makers of those chips would be better at optimizing code for their hardware than Google anyway.

Removing a touch screen will not drop the price that significantly, they’ll have to strip out a lot more to get it to $199.

Even the Amazon Kindle Fire, at just 7″, no keyboard, and pretty much little else but the IPS screen and 1Ghz dual core processor. Only comes in at $199 because Amazon makes all its real profits from the services it provides.  While making little to no profit on the hardware.

Add that Chrome OS, due to the lack of hardware optimization, relies quite a bit on CPU performance.  Something only the next gen ARM chips have a hope of rivaling a dual core ATOM and even then performance could be better.

Means either price will remain closer to $300 or the performance will be lousy at $200.

Even a company like Genesi that makes products primarily for poorer nations can barely make a basic $200 10″ ARM netbook.

Of course all hardware companies can optimize, but so can Google. They have twenty five thousand engineers, most of whome want to work on Android, all it takes are three or fou talented chip engineers at Google optimizing the latest internal Android codes to each of the chips, and there aren’t so many. Google is also getting nineteen thousand employees from Motorola, they have to optimize. All the cheapest Android tablets and phones will automatically run the newest Android software and features, with full Google marketplace and apps support.

Of course all hardware companies can optimize, but so can Google. They have twenty five thousand engineers, most of whome want to work on Android, all it takes are three or fou talented chip engineers at Google optimizing the latest internal Android codes to each of the chips, and there aren’t so many. Google is also getting nineteen thousand employees from Motorola, they have to optimize. All the cheapest Android tablets and phones will automatically run the newest Android software and features, with full Google marketplace and apps support.

You got that backwards, Google provides the OS and the hardware companies have to provide support.  Google can only ensure the OS can run on generic hardware but they have no control over hardware with closed drivers.

Besides, it’s hardly like every ARM device in the world has to automatically be updated to ICS and those other companies aren’t relying on older versions of their hardware anymore than the big name companies.

Along with the rapid End Of Life cycle for most ARM devices gives little reason for Google to even entertain legacy support. While also there is nothing stopping those companies from continuing to use older versions of Android.

http://www.smartkeitai.com/android-4-0-ice-cream-sandwich-demoed-on-nexus-s-video/

PS: Sorry for may poor english but I think I make my self understood

Rockchips, Telechips and Mediateks are all over China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc, thousands of companies are making devices with those chips, Google is obligated to provide Ice Cream Sandwich support on them.

But if Ice Cream Sandwich does get a full Chrome browser, they may call them Android laptops if they have touch screens, and sure some of the manufacturers will want to make a lot of profit selling them at more than $500, like Asus does with the Transformer with keyboard dock, but others will not include a touch screen, thus ship something closer to what Chrome OS is like, and those can be sold for $199.

Obviously all Tegra2 devices will support Ice Cream Sandwich, just as every other ARM chip out there.

I dont know if leaked videos with nexus s phone who run an early developement version of Ice Cream sandwich is real or fake but the hardware specs are low enough to support Android 4.0

Also , mabe if they make the 4.0 step ,  the Honeycomb sources will be made available to public .